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final four tables

final four tables - Sun Jan 15, 2012, 11:20 AM
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
We are down to 4 tables in an MTT (6pm 1.10 3k guarantee)

I want to move up to a top 3 position

only have a few hands on PAK (20 in total about 14 when this hand happens) but i decided hes using his chip lead to bully that said he has only got to showdown with winners so you can push him out of hands if he misses.

but did i play it correctly or should I be sitting on my hands?

Grade b

I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 11:39 AM
WeaselBasher's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,138
as I was railing you then, in my very inexperienced opinion, yes you played that correctly.

PAK was the chip leader, and although he didn't seem that good, he had a huge stack, which you should have avoided getting into confrontation with him. He seemed to play a little loose at first, but then he seemed to tighten up in the more recent hands.....( unless you had a nice pair, and you may have raised him pre flop.) As we now know, he had a better hand too......but we weren't to know that.

Well done..shame you didn't get further...you deserved to.umbup

i would have tried it on with Kingfisher, given the opportunity.....but he wasn't in the best table position. But he seemed to be careful with his chips.

Last edited by WeaselBasher; Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 11:50 AM..
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 11:49 AM
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
You're going by read here, so I'll stick with you preflop. Personally, with my 18BB stack, I'm not sure I would have done this. Are we in the money yet, and if so, for how much. A good cash might make me change my mind. But if you're playing this, wouldn't a raise be better than a call? You'll push him off a weak holding as you say, and prevent the chance he can catch on the flop.

As it is, you catch an open ender on the flop, which isn't too bad. No flush out there which is good too. And we still have the two overcards as well. If he's bullying, it's gonna be hard putting him on a hand, but I imagine a J or T or A is definitely in his range here, meaning we still have to catch. You check, he minbets. We're drawing to likely 13 outs, so this is a call, if not a shove.

Turn is the same story: check-bet, still drawing to 13 outs and getting 6-to-1, so this is still a correct call.

River blanks,. it's check-check and he has the AQ.

So as it stands, you didn't go broke. I would most likely have either folded preflop, or shoved the flop. With my 13 outs I expect to have over 52% equity here. The question is - do you think he would have folded to a flop shove without a made hand? If yes, then you should have shoved instead of call his c-bet.

keeping track of my poker semi-career: ov3rsight.blog.com
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 12:48 PM
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
fold Pre - utg big stack min raise is always trouble

KQ - your likely to be dominated to AK or AQ so your in danger to bust out if you hit the any two

flop - you have OE i will call also

turn - call also

that's why it's hard to chase if you hit you will not get paid he will definitely fold

total chips lost - pre - you add 1

flop - 2

turn - 2

total BB lost 5

you start with 18BB you lost 5 BB very important in this stages because of calling
late stages of the tournament you need to be the aggressor

if you can't raise just get of the hand or if you want to see the flop get away as soon as possible if you miss in here you have a draw you need to think before you start calling

your big stack opp is betting weak so you need to have a back up plan

a 2BB bet on the turn is really his standard betting that might be your clue that when he's weak he's betting against the size of the pot 50000 in a 250000 is a weak bet and you can call here then jam the river if you want to win. yes maybe he have something but that's the time you need to use your opp's read on how he was betting before this hand is he always like that betting weak but his hands are strong or he bets 50% of the pot when he got a good hand.

you can't just call and don't have a back up plan because at the start of the hand you only got 18BB

very valuable 18BB late stages

so fold PRE to avoid situation like this - if it's open to you - you raise that's the time you play KQ
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 01:10 PM
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Thank you everyone,

money for 1st was over $700 but for 27th (were we were roughly) was worth 12 bucks.

As I rewatch it i kick my self for not being more suspeious of the min raise.

Still lots to learn it seems

Grade b

I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 01:37 PM
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Originally Posted by marvinsytan View Post
fold Pre
I agree with this. I'd say don't get too caught up trying to read his actions using his chip lead or minraise as clues. Just play your game and don't force anything. I think calling preflop with KQ counts as forcing things, but besides that, you played the hand decently. I'd fold the turn as played, since your drawing odds really aren't great and your implied odds look like they're going down super-fast. You only have the river to get paid off if you make your straight, and this guy doesn't look like he wants to commit any more chips to the pot.
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 05:07 PM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
Hi grade B!

With 4 tables left, I would be looking to find a spot where I could double-up with 18BB left.

Was there a large payout jump that your chip stack would be able to get within the next orbit or two? If so, then I'm going to fold this to a big stack min raise from UTG, as there are too many hands that can have me behind or dominated.

Even without a large payout jump coming quickly, I'm going to fold this preflop. If I hit a hand, I wouldn't know if I was ahead so that I could shove and if I missed, I wouldn't want to be leaking off chips by calling further bets. A big stack that raises preflop will most likely be following up that raise with other bets. Also, I'm out of position in what could end up being a 3-way pot if the BB calls too.

If I was in the hand, with an OESD on the flop, I would call their 50k bet, as with 8 outs, KQ has more equity here than the % of chips that I would have to put into the pot.
I'm also calling the turn, as to call would be 50k into a pot that will be 350k (14.3%) and on OESD with 8 outs has 16% equity. I would check on the river too, knowing that I'd most likely be behind.
With dropping down to 12.6BB, I'd be looking to shove, the next hand that I would be a part of.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables. Also, great run in the tourney

John (JWK24)


6 Time Bracelet Winner


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