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How should you play AJ in early stages of 0.25c 45man S&G

How should you play AJ in early stages of 0.25c 45man S&G - Wed Jan 18, 2012, 11:37 PM
13abie's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 9
PokerStars Hand #74096743317: Tournament #502637305, $0.23+$0.02 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2012/01/18 23:19:53 ET
Table '502637305 5' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: 13abie (1970 in chips)
Seat 2: driver-013 (2815 in chips)
Seat 3: zafira09 (975 in chips)
Seat 4: tempusdomini (1215 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 5: ozboyy (1375 in chips)
Seat 6: rojo_0271 (760 in chips)
Seat 7: TATITA MDQ (495 in chips)
Seat 8: scousejeff (3925 in chips)
Seat 9: morepes (1165 in chips)
morepes: posts small blind 15
13abie: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 13abie [As Jc]
driver-013: calls 30
zafira09: calls 30
tempusdomini: folds
ozboyy: raises 120 to 150
rojo_0271: folds
scousejeff: folds
morepes: folds
13abie: calls 120
driver-013: folds
zafira09: calls 120
*** FLOP *** [2d 2s Th]
13abie: checks
zafira09: bets 30
ozboyy: calls 30
13abie: calls 30
*** TURN *** [2d 2s Th] [Ad]
13abie: checks
zafira09: bets 60
ozboyy: calls 60
13abie: calls 60
*** RIVER *** [2d 2s Th Ad] [4c]
13abie: checks
zafira09: bets 30
ozboyy: calls 30
13abie: raises 120 to 150
zafira09: calls 120
ozboyy: folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
13abie: shows [As Jc] (two pair, Aces and Deuces)
zafira09: shows [Ah Kh] (two pair, Aces and Deuces - King kicker)
zafira09 collected 1095 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1095 | Rake 0
Board [2d 2s Th Ad 4c]
Seat 1: 13abie (big blind) showed [As Jc] and lost with two pair, Aces and Deuces
Seat 3: zafira09 showed [Ah Kh] and won (1095) with two pair, Aces and Deuces

I almost folded the AJ, but given the loose ranges of .25c I flat called. I would 3bet at a later stage in the tourny but at level 2 I feared that if I raised someone would shove.

My next question is how should I have played this hand? It was a little deeper in the tournament, should I have folded to a reraise?

No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2012/01/18 23:27:26 ET
Table '502638365 4' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: dokimi (3275 in chips)
Seat 2: waynowanaka (1880 in chips)
Seat 3: Ben Grymm (800 in chips)
Seat 4: prof_treviño (4040 in chips)
Seat 5: diegobr1978 (1295 in chips)
Seat 6: smak9 (490 in chips)
Seat 7: edgarvinuela (3735 in chips)
Seat 8: pablo_97 (1310 in chips)
Seat 9: 13abie (2010 in chips)
13abie: posts small blind 25
dokimi: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 13abie [Tc Th]
waynowanaka: calls 50
Ben Grymm: folds
prof_treviño: calls 50
diegobr1978: folds
smak9: raises 440 to 490 and is all-in
edgarvinuela: calls 490
pablo_97: folds
13abie: calls 465
dokimi: folds
waynowanaka: folds
prof_treviño: raises 440 to 930
edgarvinuela: folds
13abie: calls 440
*** FLOP *** [2h 8s 3s]
13abie: bets 1080 and is all-in
prof_treviño: calls 1080
*** TURN *** [2h 8s 3s] [5c]
*** RIVER *** [2h 8s 3s 5c] [Qs]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
13abie: shows [Tc Th] (a pair of Tens)
prof_treviño: shows [Jh Jd] (a pair of Jacks)
prof_treviño collected 3040 from side pot
smak9: shows [9h As] (high card Ace)
prof_treviño collected 2060 from main pot
13abie finished the tournament in 25th place
smak9 finished the tournament in 26th place

Would appreciate help with these hands
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 02:02 AM
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
Hi - next time pls use the hand replayer

Hand #1:
AJ off in the BB is good enough for a call in my book. Flop isn't too good, but he minbets into a 450 pot giving you ridiculus odds to chase.
On the turn, the ace hits, and again the minbet. At this point I start pondering the odds he has a 2, but the price is too good to fold my top pair here.
On the river he check raises. I don't believe for a second here he's bluffing. The minbetting indicates either someone who has a very weak holding, or someone who doesn't quite understand betting, or someone with a monster trying to extract some extra value. Only the last one woukld pull a check raise on the river I think, so my ace is now good only against a bluff, and I doubt he is bluffing.
As it turns out he had AK. Weird play for AK...

Hand #2:
Pocket 10. 2 limpers and the MP guy shoves allin. It's folded to me, I'd be tempted to reshove here and isolate him. There's the BB and the two limpers to act behind me, and if you call, either they all call as well, or one of them might try to do just that: reshove and isolate. Also, a flat call is for 25% of my stack, and I don't want to have to fold that to a reshove. If it gets reshoved, I doubt the TT is going to be good, and most likely there will be an overpair having me in terrible shape. I wonder if folding this preflop would be better than shoving, but I'm shoving.
As it is, the BB almost minraises. At that point, I can do two things: either I fold it and cut my losses, or a shove the rest of my stack in. A flat call means putting in another 25% of my stack. We';re still early in the tourney and 1500 will leave me with enough to play with, so I'd probably ot to fold it.
If you decide to call, what range did you put BB on? Because the moment you call, you're can be pretty certain he's going to bet again on the turn.
As it is, you flat, the flop has 3 undercards to your pair, and you shove. If you shove here, why not preflop?
As it is, a shove preflop or on the flop makes no difference, the Jacks aren't going anywhere. Well, maybe there's a chance he'll muck them preflop to a shove of half his stack. That's the other advantage to shoving preflop instead of calling twice: if you had shoved before he was to act, he'd need to put half his stack in with two jacks. Two jacks against two othger players are extremely vulnerable. One of the other two is bound to have an ace, so any ace on the flop is a disaster, and the other probably has an ace too, or a pair. This early - how many people would shove with a pair lower than jacks over an all-in, and how many would shove with a higher pair.
I don't know if I could do it, but I think it'd be the right move to muck the jacks if you reshove over the allin.

keeping track of my poker semi-career: ov3rsight.blog.com
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 03:49 AM
13abie's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 9
Thanks very much for that reply. Sorry about the text, I couldn't quite figure out the hand replayer

I think that if I shoved the TT he would call with JJ, especially in a .25c. If he had reraised all in I would have folded, but he min reraised so I felt obligated to flat. At that point I should have shoved instead of calling since calling meant I was pot committed. But I suppose the only 'right' play would be to fold to the reraise. It's hard to fold high pocket pairs at such low stakes, when players frequently are all in with Ax or KJ etc, but It's my fault for not observing his play.

Thanks again
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 11:46 AM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,861
Hi 13abie!

Here is a link to the hand replayer and here is a link to the instructions for how to use it.

The one thing that will need to happen (at least it's how I got the first one to work) is to change the first line from PokerStars Hand to PokerStars Game. The thing to watch is that the spacing has to be the same.

I can't get the second one to work, as it's missing the first line, which is critical information for the replayer.

Here is the first hand and I hope this works for you in the future, as it's how I've gotten the hands to work.

John (JWK24)


6 Time Bracelet Winner

Thu Jan 19, 2012, 12:24 PM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,861
Hi again 13abie!

Here's the way that I'd have played them. Also, in the future, it's best to post each hand in its own thread, so that any discussions on them are easier for everyone to follow and be a part of.

Hand #1
This early in a tourney, with UTG and UTG+1 limping and then an opp from mid position standard raising since I'd have to play the rest of the hand out of position... I'm folding. Even if an A hits the board, I wouldn't know whether I had the best hand or not and would be the first to act, so I'd wait until I had a better hand or was in position.

If I did call and see the flop, I would check since the flop missed the AJ, but when UTG+1 makes a min bet, I'm absolutely calling it. It's too small of a bet into a pot this large and gives the correct odds to draw at an A or a J.
The turn brings an ace. Here, since I hit the A, I'd make a value both to get value from less hands, but to try to find out if my AJ was the best hand. By checking and letting an opp bet, I wouldn't know if the AJ was good or not and therefore whether to call/raise/fold to it.
When UTG+1 bets 60 chips here, it once again is so small of a bet, that with top pair, I'm at least calling but would raise the turn... once again, to see if the AJ was going to be good or not and get value from lower hands.
On the river, if the opp would have called my turn bet or raise, then I'm checking for pot control (as the opp could easily have AK, AQ or Ax for two pair). Check/raising here I wouldn't do because the raise is normally only going to be called by a better hand. I would have check/called a small bet like the one UTG+1 made.

I was surprised to see AKs here. If I was the opp with AK, I would have raised preflop, made a 1/2 pot value bet on the turn and possibly another value bet on the river. If I was the opp that raised to 150 preflop, I would have made a continuation bet on the flop of about 1/2 pot. In my eyes, this hand was played way too passively by all the opps.

With AJ, I'd have mucked it preflop, or if I was in the hand, made a 1/2 pot value bet on the turn.

Hand #2
There are two limpers and then two shoves in front of me. 10's is a good hand, but in my eyes, it's not strong enough to call a shove and call of the shove with 3 players behind me that already have chips in the pot. There are too many cards that a player can draw to that can beat pocket 10's, if someone doesn't already have a higher pocket pair. Middle pocket pairs play much better against less opponents, as there would be less cards that a player can match on the board to win.

I wouldn't have even called the 465 chips, I'd have mucked it immediately and tried to find a better spot where I was only against one opponent instead of possibly 5 opponents.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


6 Time Bracelet Winner


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