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could I have won more in this?

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could I have won more in this? - Fri Jan 20, 2012, 09:38 AM
(#1)
sydhollow97's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 82

the player to the left is an extreme lag who just busted while I write this with 94s. He went all in on 922 flop two hearts. Anyway, was it the right play to try to let him bluff after flopping the nuts or should I have bet the flop or turn? Thanks in advance.

P.S. - My table image I would definitely consider as tight passive... that is if this kid even knows how to spell poker (lol phil helmuth)

Last edited by sydhollow97; Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 09:45 AM..
 
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Fri Jan 20, 2012, 09:46 AM
(#2)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
You flop the nuts, but the spades are not much fun. On the river, there's 7 hands that beat you: pocket pair 2,3,J,A or A2, A3,AJ.
I would assume UTG guy would have bet those hands for value on the flop. You have him pegged as LAG, I think a LAG player would definitely valuebet that flop.
Did you use the last hand thingie to check what he was gholding? That'd be interesting to see.

A LAG player who doesn'ty bet that flop when he hits, not sure about that. And if he didn't hit the flop, he probably didn't have a hand he was calling a bet with on the river.

I think you may have missed some value of the flop here, where an Ace or flush draw would/might have called the bet. Also, I think not betting the flop was bad for two reasons:
1. you're denying yourself value by not giving your opponent a chance to call with worse hands and put money into the pot for you to win
2. you're giving the flush draw not one, but 2 chances to hit his hand for free. Yes, you have the nuts, but the board is very dangerous to your straight. I would make a flushdraw pay for a chance to hit the flush.

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Fri Jan 20, 2012, 09:51 AM
(#3)
sydhollow97's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 82
no I couldn't see his hand at the end cause he folded to the bet. And at the moment I was thinking he would bet the flop with pretty much any 2 considering he was a lag and I have ATC.

edit - i mean for me to think he bets the ace or flush draw here atleast is reasonable right?

Last edited by sydhollow97; Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 10:06 AM..
 
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Fri Jan 20, 2012, 12:26 PM
(#4)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
A good LAG doesn't really bet a flop with anything. They play loose preflop and aggressive postflop, but that only works profitably if you pick your hands, and as I understand it mostly they don't start throwing chips around without something postflop, be it a made hand or a strong draw.
 
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Fri Jan 20, 2012, 02:59 PM
(#5)
RaBBiiTGiiRL's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 972
well i think u cld earn more chips.. first of all u shld of bet on the flop and then on turn.. never check, u were first to act and u shld of took the advantage of it, even if u didnt hit.. bet always on flop.. c-bet, c-bet, c-bet!
 
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Fri Jan 20, 2012, 07:09 PM
(#6)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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Hi sydhollow! I really don't mind most of your slowplay here.

This flop misses his UTG limping range pretty bad unless he has two spades. I have no problem with your flop check. It's like checking to the raiser, expecting him to c-bet.

The turn on the other hand, is a card that does hit a decent portion of his UTG limp range. This gives him something he can possibly call with like J7-KJ or whatever. You're still probably not getting much but at least there's a chance he has some pair.

After checking the turn you've gotta check this river. It's sooo unlikely for him to have an ace that your only choice is to try one last time to let him bluff. It's a decent scare card and he's gotta be thinking that his best chance to win this pot is to bluff you. If he has a J he's checking it back (and would have called a bet on the turn), but if he has an ace or air there's a decent chance he'll try to take the pot away after you check three streets.


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Slow playing OOP HU - Fri Jan 20, 2012, 10:13 PM
(#7)
king_spadez1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by sydhollow97 View Post
the player to the left is an extreme lag who just busted while I write this with 94s. He went all in on 922 flop two hearts. Anyway, was it the right play to try to let him bluff after flopping the nuts or should I have bet the flop or turn? Thanks in advance.

P.S. - My table image I would definitely consider as tight passive... that is if this kid even knows how to spell poker (lol phil helmuth)
Just because he overbet shoved on a 922hh flop, doesn't mean he's a LAG. Weak players do this because they don't want the flush draws to enter the pot. With the 922hh flop, villain probably had a set of 2's.

I really think your read was off on this villain - I bet this flop HU IP, without looking at my cards; especially because your a tight passive player.

I like your slow play on the flop; your slow play on the turn could be played either way (I would have bet <1/2 pot). On the river, I agree with 'oriholic', the only way to make money now, is to let him bluff! You didn't lose any money on this hand, he was out right after the flop.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ov3rsight View Post
You have him pegged as LAG, I think a LAG player would definitely
valuebet that flop.
A LAG player who doesn'ty bet that flop when he hits, not sure about that.
Careful! Make sure you have a good read! I've seen a lot of LAG's, play 'opposite' their hand strength. If he was a 'solid' LAG, he would check back top pair, because you're tight/passive, he needs to draw you in by checking back the flop.
.
 
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Sat Jan 21, 2012, 12:42 AM
(#8)
sydhollow97's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriholic View Post
Hi sydhollow! I really don't mind most of your slowplay here.

This flop misses his UTG limping range pretty bad unless he has two spades. I have no problem with your flop check. It's like checking to the raiser, expecting him to c-bet.

The turn on the other hand, is a card that does hit a decent portion of his UTG limp range. This gives him something he can possibly call with like J7-KJ or whatever. You're still probably not getting much but at least there's a chance he has some pair.

After checking the turn you've gotta check this river. It's sooo unlikely for him to have an ace that your only choice is to try one last time to let him bluff. It's a decent scare card and he's gotta be thinking that his best chance to win this pot is to bluff you. If he has a J he's checking it back (and would have called a bet on the turn), but if he has an ace or air there's a decent chance he'll try to take the pot away after you check three streets.
Yea after re-thinking I completely agree with you. Bet turn or check the river again I think is what it comes down to.
 
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Sat Jan 21, 2012, 03:02 PM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,831
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HI sydhollow97!

Instead of checking the flop and turn, then making a larger bet on the river. If the opp would call smaller bets, I'd have tried making a min bet on the flop and turn.
If your image was passive, then a larger bet is going to be a warning to the opp (if they recognized it), but they might call a min bet. Also, by min betting the flop and turn, if the opp calls any, it'll build a larger pot, which can give the opp more of a reason to call a river bet.

If the opp folds to the min bet on the flop, it also wouldn't lose any value, becuase the opp didn't put any chips into the pot by checking the first 2 streets and folding on the river.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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