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I never thought I would say this but....

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I never thought I would say this but.... - Sat Jan 21, 2012, 07:34 AM
(#1)
mcgameboy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 119
I am actually going to try to get myself "relegated" from....the OPEN League.

Now I dont know if anyone thinks this is a strange "move" to make or not...but anyway...here's my reasons for it...

After starting with 34 positive scores from my first 34 games....I have not just hit a brick wall, I have driven straight through the wall and fell off the cliff that was hiding right behind said wall.....

Since that 34th and final consecutive positive score, I have played 13 games....and I have scored minuses in NINE of them. In my first 36 games I finished outside the top 1600 ONCE (a 1726th)...in the 11 games since....I have finished outside the Top 1600 FIVE times. That is despite playing SEVERAL games where my VPIP was ZERO and my clock running/timing out was set to MAX. Every single thing is going against me, table moves straight into the BB, circuits where I find myself posting a BB again just 3 hands after I had posted my SB. In one game, I posted blinds 4 times in the space of 7 hands, and 10 times in the space of 30 hands. That is closer to what is normal in 6-max, not full ring.

During one tournament I played on Friday I had a TWENTY hand spell where my highest card was a JACK. And even within that 20 hand spell, I had an ELEVEN hand spell where my highest card was a NINE. No pairs, no suited connectors, not even suited three gappers, nothing. Completely unplayable junk in Open League. Unless of course, you possess a Poker IQ of less than 3 like most of the Russians, Ukranians, Greeks, Spanish, Romanians, Hungarians, Portuguese and south Americans that play OL do. They dont fold those hands, they shove them preflop and suckout with them. And then call it "skill"

In another tournament (on Thursday) I didn't even get to see a FLOP until the FORTY-NINTH minute of play (the start of Level SEVEN when the blinds are 100/200).

In several of the 47 tournaments I have played (at least a third) I havent won a SINGLE pot.

But even up until Friday night, I was still feeling positive about getting out of this slump. But then, in the space of three tournaments I get the following BS.....

2282nd place...worst finish and score of the month so far (minus 15.83 points). I have just been fortunate enough to have "skipped the BB" due to a player busting out from his BB when I was UTG on the previous hand. I find myself in the SB with 95 suited. I have a short stack but enough to get to ITM even if I make up the blind to see a flop. I call because the BB is sitting out which increased my pot odds. Flop is 5sJs5d. Three players. Limper 1 min bets and limper 2 calls. I flat call to milk the pot. Turn 2d. Limper 1 bets twice the min and Limper 2 flat calls and I shove (less than a min raise). River 6d. Limper 1 bets three times the min and Limper 2 shoves. And shows 4d 3d for a runner runner straight flush. I am busted by someone who called a post flop bet with FOUR HIGH AND NO DRAW. This was the first hand I had hit in FOUR OL tournaments and not only do I not win with it, I get busted with it. By a retard from Monaco who can't even manage a 10% rating on OPR. Marvellous!

1466th place...this was the tourny where I had the 20 hands spell of Jack High or worse. I was dealt 54 hands and saw exactly ONE Ace all game. 108 total hole cards....ONE Ace....you do the math. I think I can say I was given next to no ammunition? Amazingly, if I had had enough chips to survive one more hand, I would have made ITM and scraped a positive score of about 1.5 points. Wonderful!

4213th place....at this point, I am now nearly 400 points off the lead. And we are now into the last 11 days of the month. And it seems that a large number of the players ahead of me are going on heaters while I continue to be in a state of limbo, having to survive on the smallest of scraps. This only heightens my urgency to make up some lost ground. Given that I havent had a top 300 finish all month, I feel that I have got to start making deep runs in tournaments just to have a chance of finishing in the Top 20 let alone win the league. I cant make up an average of 40 points per day without running super good in at least one tournament per day. So now, I am thinking I have got to be prepared to shove PREflop with AA and KK in order to get maximum payoff instead of playing them "not to go broke", which was how I had been playing premiums up to this point (maybe not the wisest strategy but hey it had been working). So then, the usual card dead BS happened and then I get AA...for only the third time all month. At long bloody last I thought to myself. A Portuguese player who (in the previous 3 hands) has called a shove with 76off and shoved with A5 suited raises it up to 320 on 40/80 blinds. The player behind him flat calls. I cant afford to flat call and then fold if the flop looks ugly so I shove as I want to get at least one of my opponents out of the way to improve my odds of winning the pot. The Portuguese player calls and the original caller folds. He has K9 suited. Flop K89. Turn blank. River blank. And OUT. Worst finish of the month. And worst score of the month. By a considerable margin. And what did I do wrong? Nothing. Zero VPIP before the AA. Got my chips in good. And then a donk from one of the worst poker playing countries on the planet gets his suckout handed to him on a plate. And this player has a great track record....played 29 real money tournaments, cashed in...NONE. Fantastic!!

Now I know that PokerStars is not rigged, but by god, my faith in the site is being severely tested right now. I watch other players do exactly the same things I do, they get rewarded and I get screwed over. I watch people play like idiots and see them prosper not once, not twice but several times. While I sit there and wait....and wait....and wait some more...just for ONE opportunity....only to never see it arrive or to see it arrive and STILL end up losing to a complete idiot who couldnt even TRY to play poker properly if the lives of his nearest and dearest depended on it.

It is becoming very difficult NOT to think that Pokerstars has got it in for me. It might be only a temporary spell of run bad, but still, when I see the likes of sophie and Thanatos run like god when they get AA and shove preflop and get called, when I see the likes of sophie and Thanatos run like god when they get anted or blinded allin with junk like 94off and beat AK several times per tournament while I go FIVE consecutive tournaments without winning a single pot, because I get blinded allin with junk like FIVE HIGH in THREE consecutive tournaments and not even flop a pair or any kind of draw and find myself drawing dead after the turn because someone who has KK makes QUADS for total overkill, I have to ask myself "Why am I the one getting so few opportunities to win AND all the bad luck as well?" It's all very well being told not to focus on results but on making the right decision, but at some point the right decision SHOULD be delivering the right outcome. And it is NOT doing that. And for several consecutive tournaments at a time. That pisses me off.

There comes a point where this site goes to such lengths to leave you feeling so demoralised that it's not even worth trying to do well. So I'm not going to try anymore. They have got what they wanted. I'm taking a dive for the rest of the month and writing it off. For someone like me who loves to compete, it's a sad day. But my heart has been taken away and the mental stuffing has been knocked out of me. I am now going to play like 90% of the retards that populate OL and be a total DONK....I am shoving every hand preflop until I bust and I am going to plummet so far down the rankings that people who know me will think that someone has hacked into my account. 21st in August, 24th in November, 15,000th or worse in January. And as for earning 20 VPPs...forget it...not wasting my time. The way i am running, I would flop Quads and lose.

And now that I have said this....I'll probably get a double up on Hand 1 with 83off in the 2pm GMT game

E HAW!!!
 
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Sat Jan 21, 2012, 09:19 AM
(#2)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Just thank your lucky stars that you're not having to buy in to these games

By the way. I was convinced as early as the first week that this was going to be the most difficult month since the league's inception. Keep your head together and you still have plenty of time to make a challenge for the top 10
 
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Sat Jan 21, 2012, 09:44 AM
(#3)
SkinyButPhat's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 258
ChromeStar
I am finding the same issue in the 100K depositers:

5 tourneys

1st Hand 3 times of AA, and I called heads up shove for all in:

AA vs 73clubs - i lost as the flop came 456
AA vs 102 - I lost as flop came TT2-J7
AA vs J2 - lost to JJ479

I am beginning to feel that playing garbage when you are the initial "shover" is the reward. If you call the All ins, no matter what, your hand is beaten. It has happened hundreds of times to me over the last few weeks.

In the Open, it seems like Ace rag will beat anything if the play is an all in preflop. I myself wont push with ace rag preflop, but I have seen some monsters go down to such awesome hands as A2 off, A4 off etc........

Oh well, they are both free, 90% of people are not even in the league so they dont care about points, and really, its no worse than Hubbles, or any tourney with a buy in less than $50.00.

I think real poker begins at the buy in stage of about 109.00.

Cheers

Skiny
 
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Sat Jan 21, 2012, 09:50 AM
(#4)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Hi McGameboy -

Really horrible run at the tables. When you get NO help whatsoever from the dealer in the Open it is an almost impossible game to play, as there is no way to bluff the freerollers or avoid multiway pots when you get to see a flop where someone will hit something better than you most often unless you really have the monsters or flop a huge hand in your BB. It is such a card dependent scenario that when you get nothing it is a long frustrating folding exercise.

For someone with your record, your position looks bad, but in reality it is pretty fair. 90th with a gain of 775 points, and 200 points behind the 20th spot is recoverable, so long as this barren spell does not continue.

I'm with Darkman61 in thinking the Open is harder to get those top spots now, with the growing number of Open 'specialists' who play almost every game, and other good players who know how maximise the points from the games they can make. 20 decent prizes don't go very far. I would be happy with the top 40 if I was a noob with no BR, but its paltry pickings for the time invested. Hence my desire to get straight back to the Premier where fewer games can still bring good rewards.

Hope you keep at it - we all go through this at times. The only way out is to grind through it.

Good luck mate

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 
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Sat Jan 21, 2012, 05:34 PM
(#5)
mcgameboy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 119
Didnt play the 2pm or 6pm GMT games and played the 10pm game.

2nd Hand (I missed the first hand) I get QQ and shove UTG. NO CALLERS!! Obviously they knew I was going to flop Quads....

Then 7 hands later I get KQ and limp in. There is very little action preflop. I hit a Q93 flop and shove. Folded round to the chip leader at the table who in previous hands has already limped with T8 and made a full house and also called TWO shoves with J9off and won. This time IT (IT is from Ukraine obviously) has 97 suited...and calls. Turn...7....no point wasting any time is there Jokerstars? Just give my opponent his bingo card and send me to the rail....YET AGAIN!!!

I give up. I am wasting my time trying to do well in a league that is full of donkeys that Jokerstars wishes to reward at my expense no matter how few outs they are drawing to when I go allin with the best of it. I am sick to the back teeth of seeing Ukranians make bad calls and get rewarded when their 5 or less outer hits. Yet I NEVER get the re-suckout. Why is that?

At precisely 2.01amGMT I am shoving my first hand preflop. Then again at 6.01am. And again at 10.01am. I KNOW when a site has it in for me. And Jokerstars has got it in for me BIGTIME at the moment. So I am going to throw my Open League for January. And if I cant play Open League next month, so be it. I have gone out with the best hand on so many consecutive occasions and have not had one go my way when I have gone in with the worst of it. This site is a rigged up joke.
 
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Sat Jan 21, 2012, 05:43 PM
(#6)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Oh dear. Tilt issues

If you wanna see something that's worthy of getting angry about, check out my Sharkscope graph
 
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Sat Jan 21, 2012, 07:03 PM
(#7)
Don B. Cilly's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 394
Quote:
check out my Sharkscope graph
Not TOO bad... it looked a lot worse 1200 games back ;)
 
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Sat Jan 21, 2012, 07:41 PM
(#8)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
And if things continue in their current vein, it'll look a lot worse in 1,200 games time
 
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Sat Jan 21, 2012, 09:13 PM
(#9)
mcgameboy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 119
I saw two graphs there D'man...one was an ROI % graph which seems to be a very mixed bag (good for small buyins, awful for higher buyins), while the other was a profit graph which didnt look too bad now but looked horrific at the beginning...though I see a bit of an alarming downswing at the end there

As for me....I just shoved first hand with K2off as I want to plummet outside top 500 players with 20 VPPs....and finally I got an outcome that I wanted. I lost.

It's taken you ten years Jokerstars...but now you have finally got me playing the way you want me to...recklessly and with a view to busting as quickly as possible. Cheers
 
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Sun Jan 22, 2012, 09:48 AM
(#10)
IroncladMerc's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 581
Yes, it sure seems like 80% of the time the weaker hand wins. No matter what game I play, and no matter how far ahead I am when I get it all in , whichever donkey calls with a weak hand, they always hit their 2 or 3 outer.
 
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Mon Jan 30, 2012, 02:04 AM
(#11)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgameboy View Post
Didnt play the 2pm or 6pm GMT games and played the 10pm game.

2nd Hand (I missed the first hand) I get QQ and shove UTG. NO CALLERS!! Obviously they knew I was going to flop Quads....

Then 7 hands later I get KQ and limp in. There is very little action preflop. I hit a Q93 flop and shove. Folded round to the chip leader at the table who in previous hands has already limped with T8 and made a full house and also called TWO shoves with J9off and won. This time IT (IT is from Ukraine obviously) has 97 suited...and calls. Turn...7....no point wasting any time is there Jokerstars? Just give my opponent his bingo card and send me to the rail....YET AGAIN!!!

I give up. I am wasting my time trying to do well in a league that is full of donkeys that Jokerstars wishes to reward at my expense no matter how few outs they are drawing to when I go allin with the best of it. I am sick to the back teeth of seeing Ukranians make bad calls and get rewarded when their 5 or less outer hits. Yet I NEVER get the re-suckout. Why is that?

At precisely 2.01amGMT I am shoving my first hand preflop. Then again at 6.01am. And again at 10.01am. I KNOW when a site has it in for me. And Jokerstars has got it in for me BIGTIME at the moment. So I am going to throw my Open League for January. And if I cant play Open League next month, so be it. I have gone out with the best hand on so many consecutive occasions and have not had one go my way when I have gone in with the worst of it. This site is a rigged up joke.
I am with you on this mcgameboy . Forgt the open league , the premier is just as bad but with less people and less pre flop shoves .

I have been playing the premier since August , never really won much but always manged to stay in for the next month . So , as for January , been doing my usual grinding , manage to get some decent results to make the top 100 by 22nd January then this week i am down to about 600th after being all in heads up pre flop with AA against AK AJ AQ J4off 55 lose each hand , then lose with QQ to QJ , then one hand where it folded to the SB who min raises , me in the BB with QQ flop KQT all the chips end up in the middle on this flop , my opponent shows KK , turn and river no help , sos i lose to set over set ( cant really comlian too much about this hand - just unfortunate )

then this last hand , which in my opinion shows how bad most players in the premier are :-blinds 50/100

UTG limps MP1 climps folded to SB who completes
Me in the BB with Ad5d


flop A35 with 2 clubs


now i say to myself this is an unraised pot so dont go mental

400 in the pot and i am pretty sure i have the best hand and want to protect it against draw chasers so i bet 299 ( which should be enough to chase offf the chasers unless they are willing to shove there and then ) anyway get two folds and the SB calls .

our stacks by the way are SB has 5410
i have 3900

so there is 998 in the pot

turn card 8s

i bet 600

SB says ' hmm are you chasing ?' i say nothing

river is 4c

i shove . ( maybe not the most prudent play ) but i have bet the flop , the turn and jameed the river .

SB calls and showss pocket 3s for trips and i bust out

now my point is this , the pot was unraised pre flop , i bet flop turn and river , given my line i dont think he can call with trips even though he has me covered , its too much of his stack to call if i am bluffing

now lets think about the hands i could have been representing

AA, 55 , 88 , 22 , 67 , any hand with a deuce or any two clubs , when you put all that together , trip 3s doesnt look too good but hey this the Premier league a set is set even on the river , given the board and my line throughout the hand .

i ask the guy what he was thinking and e said 'I didnt think you had the deuce'

then i point out all the hands i could have been representing and ask him if he considered any of those ( and bear in mind there was three clubs on board by the river )

then he says ' but you only had 2 pair and i had a set and i know how to play the game , and anyway i put you on AK ' wow the guy puts me on a range of exactly 1 hand in an unraised pot . youjust have to give up on shite like this or suffer bad beats or lose with the worst hand to marginal calls . By the way this same player called off 20% of his stack from the button to an UTG shove with J7 , i mean come on . i ask him why he was willing to call off so much of his stack with such garbage , guess what he said ? Correct . ' i was suited and i was heads up '
i had to point out that he was only heads up once I and the BB folded . So maybe i should not have been surprised when he called with the trips in the hand described above .

Now , in my opinion , about 95% of the players in the premier league dont really understand position , range , pot odds ( if there is a chance of a straight or flush , most players are willing to keep calling no matter the price ) , stack vs blind ratio , or their M number when the antes kick in,or really pay attention to how often players enter a pot , do they limp or raose etc. what have they showed at showdown Also big stacks call short stack shoves with total trash , thinking that their big stack gives them license to call with anything . then they wonder how their stack has diminished by half in the space of a few hands .

Another point to note :- the Open and Premier leagues are freerolls therefore the vast majority of players are not going to be that good so it should not really be that surprising that good players suffer many bad beats or that tricky sophisticated plays are really going to have a bearing on the vast amount of dullards in these leagues .

As to 150VVP you have to wonder how much money most of these players lose trying to achieve that ; i can play four 4c/8c stud tables for 4 hours and only earn somewhwre between 1 and 3 VVP , sometimes i might make 5 if i have been getting the right hands and putting enough money in the pot . How much rake do yo think Pokerstars makes from these people .

So , while you could earn $1500/$5000 for winning either of this leagues I'd be surprised if players that play TAG poker and know how to mix it up ever do consistently well . These leagues , for the most part , are for noobs and donks who basically think ( if they think at all ) poker is all about 50/50 coinflips and bingo .


So my frien you are not the only person that suffers horrendous bad beat after horrendous bad beat . If you are unwilling to grind through these leagues my advice would be to stop playing them .
 
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Mon Jan 30, 2012, 04:20 AM
(#12)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
I can only assume that this latest hand is the last in a long line of wind ups. Otherwise I completely fail to understand how it's pushed you to write all that. You've done an awful lot of thinking along the lines of "he did the wrong thing". I'm not a big fan of the way either of you played it, but the worst play of all as far as I'm concerned was your shove on the river. It looks desparate to me. It's a no brainer check behind in my book.
 
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Mon Jan 30, 2012, 07:00 AM
(#13)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
idid say that shoving the river was perhaps not the most prudent play , but i think given the line i took throughout the hand a shove was ok . betting the flop and the turn then check/call check/folding the river would be worse in my opinion .

Also i'd like to add that i can only assume that yourself , like the vast majority of players , dont really think beyond what cards you are holding .given the way this guy played his hand ( and i didnt put him on a set to be honest ) but him on an ace or a club draw , but as he played so passively on the flop and turn , but when he called the river shove i really expected him to show the nut flush ( or at least a flush ) which fair enough i get caught trying to steal the pot .; but come on the guy the guy called with the umpteenth nuts or actually the umpteenth+n nuts . plus he thought i was drawing , so when both the straight and flush make it on the river , how the hell can he call ; i know - he isnt very good .

Maybe it doesnt pay to think when playing this league .
 
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Mon Jan 30, 2012, 07:51 AM
(#14)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Like I said, I don't like the way either of you played it.

I can see why you thought he was drawing. I don't like his check on the flop, but having done so it's then a complete mystery why he doesn't then re-raise you at that point or even more importantly on the turn. That's where the confusion starts I think. But what you end up with are his errors leading you to make an even bigger one on the river.

Oh. And as for being in the "majority" of players who only think about their own cards. Despite having played it wrong, I think he read your hand better than you read his. I have no doubt he put you on a "big" ace, although I suspect that AK was what he was hoping for rather than what he was convinced of.

And oh oh. Where does this check/call, check/folding the river come from? You were last to act!
 

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