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was this correct?

was this correct? - Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:22 AM
wetmoose 613's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 434
opp is tight . had him on a big pr
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:13 AM
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
What stage of the tornie are you at. This will influance my play here.

Also what is our own image at the table.

my thoughts here are AJs in late im raising if its folded to me or maybe a call by a calling station other wise i'm folding against a tight player because against a pair i'm raceing at best and against higher aces i'm dominated.

Against a tight range of 88+, AK-ATs, AK-ATo, QKs. we are a 60 -40 underdog. (I shoved it into pokerstove)

against a 18% range (would he raise 18%) we are a slight favorate 54 -46 but do we really think hes raising with KTo here?

that said he really should be shoving not raising here, so an option with our hand preflop is too shove over him and make him decide if he wants to race for his tourny.

I think on the flop when he puts chips in he is telling you he is commited to the hand and is trying to get paid.

hopes this helps

Grade b

I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner

Last edited by Grade b; Mon Jan 23, 2012 at 10:23 AM.. Reason: added some more detail
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 04:12 PM
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Given this guy's stack and the size of the antes, you're effectively on ~7.5bb, so you really can't be calling and seeing a flop; you should either shove or fold. This guy should also be jamming pre unless he's trying to trap. If he's tight, then AJ is never going to play well vs. his range, so I'd suggest a simple fold preflop. Even in an earlier game stage where you're deep enough to call, I think folding is best, because he'll be dominating you too often. AJ is a decent hand for opening, but it is seldom a good hand for calling or reraising.

Postflop, I prefer calling and allowing the guy to bet the rest of his stack on the turn or river. I don't think he's going to call you with KK when you shove the flop, so you're pretty much only getting called by worse. You can't shove for value; you won't get him off AQ+, so you can't bluff; and since there are no draws, you're not even protecting your holding very much. There's really no reason to raise, so just call and hope he gives you the rest of his stack with his KK-type hands.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 04:26 PM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
Hi Wetmoose!

What type of tourney was this? The answer to that may affect my decision here. Also, instead of putting the opp on only a couple of hands, it's better to give the opp a range of hands based on the way they are playing.

Against a tight opp, their normal range is going to be mid/high pocket pairs or AQ+. AJs, without a flush draw hitting the flop, really doesn't play that well against a tight opp's range... so I'd muck preflop.
Against a loose opp, I'd be more likely to call (against loose aggressive) or 3-bet (against loose passive).
If this was a league game, I'm mucking this hand immediately here, as I want to preserve my chip stack to be able to last longer in the tourney and be able to get more points from it.

When the opp c-bets on the flop, unless they c-bet a very high % of the time, the ace did not scare them at all. Due to this, along with being tight, they most likely have AJ outkicked. I would not raise here, as almost all of the hands that would call are ones with an ace and a better kicker, or hands better than a pair.

I also agree with gradeb's statement, that the flop bet commits the opp to the pot, as it's 1/3 of their stack. This is another good argument against shoving, as with the opp already committed to the pot... they will not be folding.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


6 Time Bracelet Winner

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:47 PM
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
against tight opp it's a fold.

but you called and hit an A i will shove also against opp's short stack nothing we can do

so the best is get out of this situation

against tight opp i also fold AQ to opp's raise just to be safe. i still got 20BB's it's still better to raise first than to call a raise.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:34 AM
wetmoose 613's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 434
thank y all for your responses
yes it was in the league and grade also brought up something i should have put in;ii perceived image.i had previously folded a few hands post flop to c bets and am known as a somewhat passive player( or is that just me) so i believed it was basically a steal attempt.
i also had seen showdowns with him holding KQo JQo 9s and AKo so not nitty but still tight.
so i lived and now i shall learn a little more.

gl y all

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