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Would you call?

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Would you call? - Mon Jan 23, 2012, 05:30 PM
(#1)
etipac's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 116
No reads against this guy.




Etienne
 
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Mon Jan 23, 2012, 08:15 PM
(#2)
chuckkky's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 913
I would probably call, but wouldn't be happy about it.
I hate it when every one limps into you BB and you get into a spot you didnt want to be in.
 
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Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:11 PM
(#3)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
tough

but yes i will call also

i thought he's still drawing
 
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Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:59 PM
(#4)
darkmajik365's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 191
No i am not calling here, in fact when the guy makes a pot size bet into 2 opponents on the flop i am folding top pair and the gut shot draw, the villain could already have the nuts or a set with that strong betting action, there are two many cards to come on the turn which would seriously weaken our thin showdown value on the flop i.e the board pairing or a 10, even if we improve to a straight with the 6 we would only have the lowest of all the possible straights out there and in all cases if we made the straight it would be hard to get value as our opponent is less likely to pay off a bet with 4 cards to a straight on the board. Despite making our two pair it is hard for us to call a shove there on the turn as realistically we only hold a bluff catcher.

Last edited by darkmajik365; Mon Jan 23, 2012 at 10:34 PM..
 
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Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:17 PM
(#5)
r0ck.carver's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 201
i agree with Darkman....nuff said....
 
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Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:10 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Hi etipac,

I agree with darkmajik, I would fold right on the flop. The guy can connect with this flop having limped pre, in many ways that have us smashed. Even if we have the best hand now, our opponents equity is likely never bad and there are so many turn and river cards which we just can't continue on with any confidence at all. And we'll be out of position without the initiative.

As played, I'm never calling this turn bet without some kind of read. Our hand is not really strong... we only have a bluff catcher (we're not beating anything in a reasonable value shoving range) and this is too large an overbet to stack off with a weak holding. Not all 2 pair are created equally, top and bottom pair on a coordinated 4 straight middling card board facing strong action, is ultimately pretty weak imo.

Dave


Head Live Trainer
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Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:23 PM
(#7)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Hi Etienne,

No, in this spot I'd not call the flop bet, nor the turn bet.

Going to the flop you have a high medium SPR just under 16. This only favors setting up a commitment line with very STRONG draws, like oesd and flush draws, top pair+ hands, sets, and straights/flushes.

- Your draw he was quite weak as it was the 1 card bottom end of the straight.
- You had only top pair with a weak kicker.
- Even if your draw IMPROVED on the turn (to include a flush draw), it was only 9 high.

As your investment in the pot was only 5c you posted in the BB, you must think the villain leading for a slightly larger than pot size bet has some sort of "strength" a good portion of the time. And since he began his line with such a strong bet, calling it is all too likely to get you to a commitment point FAST.

Even when you "improve" to 2 pair, it is top and bottom pair on a 4 straight card board; that leaves far too little that a villian might launch on that you beat. You have to remember; you lack info on his bet patterns, so you'd really have to think he'd limp a big over pair, then stack off on a 4 straight card board with that hand, to really arrive at something your hand is good against.

A 2 pair hand is only as good as its relation to the nut hand possible on a board, and in this spot, there were just too many hands between your 2 pair and the nut hand to want to launch off this many chips.

Hope it helps.

-JDean


Double Bracelet Winner
 

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