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Quads re Hand of the Day

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Quads re Hand of the Day - Sun Jan 29, 2012, 03:07 PM
(#1)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,507
I would greatly appreciate the Langolier to review this and give me some input.

I watched your hand of the day video about playing quads to maximise the pot.

I flopped quads in an Open League game earlier today and tried to put into practice what you had said.

Unfortunately I had only been at this table for two previous hands and had no reads as yet on the opponents.

The initial raiser did not check to me, as in your illustration but put out a small C bet.

This, I felt could mean one of two things, either he was holding AK and had hit his King and didn't want to frighten off any draws, or, he was holding a pocket pair smaller than the Tens and was unsure if he was ahead.

As he had made a continuation bet, but only small, I just called as I wanted to keep him in the hand and thought that if I raised him he might fold if he hadn't connected with the King.

On the Turn I min raised him as he was still only betting marginally, I wanted to see if he had hit at all.

I bet 4XBB on the River, which he called.

Your video was from a cash game, and this was an MTT, does the pot building you suggest still obtain for this type of game ?



PokerStars Hand #74692190950: Tournament #495249784, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (125/250) - 2012/01/29 14:09:22 ET
Table '495249784 939' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Tomik82 (28492 in chips)
Seat 2: cucabura (9399 in chips)
Seat 3: Butik13 (2390 in chips)
Seat 4: sergei141777 (10735 in chips)
Seat 5: lukichV (4680 in chips)
Seat 6: ELENA DAV (7787 in chips)
Seat 7: Bill Curran (7651 in chips)
Seat 8: Lihoy best (10063 in chips)
Seat 9: BMW123232 (12756 in chips)
Tomik82: posts the ante 25
cucabura: posts the ante 25
Butik13: posts the ante 25
sergei141777: posts the ante 25
lukichV: posts the ante 25
ELENA DAV: posts the ante 25
Bill Curran: posts the ante 25
Lihoy best: posts the ante 25
BMW123232: posts the ante 25
BMW123232: posts small blind 125
Tomik82: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bill Curran [Th Tc]
cucabura: folds
Butik13: folds
sergei141777: folds
lukichV: raises 750 to 1000
ELENA DAV: folds
Bill Curran: calls 1000
Lihoy best: folds
BMW123232: folds
Tomik82: folds
*** FLOP *** [Kc Ts Td]
lukichV: bets 750
Bill Curran: calls 750
*** TURN *** [Kc Ts Td] [4c]
lukichV: bets 250
Bill Curran: raises 250 to 500
lukichV: calls 250
*** RIVER *** [Kc Ts Td 4c] [6d]
lukichV: checks
Bill Curran: bets 1000
lukichV: calls 1000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Bill Curran: shows [Th Tc] (four of a kind, Tens)
lukichV: mucks hand
Bill Curran collected 7100 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 7100 | Rake 0
Board [Kc Ts Td 4c 6d]
Seat 1: Tomik82 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: cucabura folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Butik13 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: sergei141777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: lukichV mucked [Jh Ah]
Seat 6: ELENA DAV folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Bill Curran showed [Th Tc] and won (7100) with four of a kind, Tens
Seat 8: Lihoy best (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: BMW123232 (small blind) folded before Flop
 
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Two lines of play - Sun Jan 29, 2012, 06:38 PM
(#2)
king_spadez1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curran View Post
As he had made a continuation bet, but only small, I just called as I wanted to keep him in the hand and thought that if I raised him he might fold if he hadn't connected with the King.

On the Turn I min raised him as he was still only betting marginally, I wanted to see if he had hit at all.

I bet 4XBB on the River, which he called.
There are two lines of play here.

One: is the line you choose, without the min-raise you elected to do. Just by min raising, you may have put him off a river bluff. I’ve seen so many villains throw out feelers on two streets (sometimes reducing the turn bet – like this villain did), then pummeling the river with a shove. If he doesn’t bet into you on the river, then betting less than half his stack (1000 is a good amount), is the best line for possibly gaining more chips.

Two: is a line focused on getting his entire stack. On the turn, you need to make a raise that will be less than half his stack (1000 is a good amount). If he goes for the turn raise, you then follow-up on the river for the balance of his stack. At this point there is so much in the pot, and his stack is worthless otherwise, he should call.
.
 
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Sun Jan 29, 2012, 07:09 PM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Hi Bill,

The depth of money is significantly different here from the hand of the day video I made.

The basic premise that applies to all these situations is this... when you flop a big hand, the goal is to ultimately play a big pot if possible. And the biggest pot we can possibly play on any given hand is one for all the chips.

In the hand of the day video I'm advocating taking a line that will build the pot immediately on the flop, as in that hand there is a lot of money behind so if I'm going to get a big pot out of it I need to start growing the pot immediately... where as checking back the flop does not grow the pot and eliminates a betting round (it manages the pot or keeps it small, not what we want to do with quads on deep money).

In your hand the depth of money is very shallow. There's 2600 in the pot and he only has 3655 behind. He c-bets for 750 on the flop. The goal is still to play for stacks if the villain is willing, but in this case flat calling his c-bet is perfectly fine, we don't need to raise to facilitate stacks happening. When you call there will be 4100 in the pot with only 2900 behind, and 2 betting rounds left to get that 2900 into the middle. If he's got a king, stacking him is guaranteed, and he's so deep in it at this point he may well stack off a lot of non-king hands as well (shoving the turn as a bluff, betting "to protect" QQ, etc).

On the turn his min bet of 250 is a disappointment. If he has anything to give more action with, we should still be able to get stacks in since he's got so little left relative to the pot. I think making a small raise is ok, but actually may have flatted again, since the line indicates he likely does not have a king (he'd just shove with a king generally) and by leaving him in the lead we give him another chance to bluff or make a river blocking bet with a moderate made hand, that he'll still have a hard time folding to an all in raise.

Note that flat calling again is not incongruent with the goal of winning the maximum size pot, since he's only got about a half pot bet left for the river anyway.

As played, I think you should put him all in on the end, the pot is huge and when he calls your min-raise (I would have raised a bit more if going that route because min-raises are generally a sign of great strength) he is generally not going to be able to fold any more.

Hope this helps.

Dave


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
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Sun Jan 29, 2012, 08:07 PM
(#4)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,507
Thanks Dave, a big help thankyou.

I did think about putting him all in on the river, but I felt that he may have folded rather than risk all his chips.

I thought that if I bet less than half his stack, it would give him a chance to check/raise me if he had something worthwhile.

As it was he still called even though he only had AJ suited that hadn't connected with the final board at all, he only had a gutshot

So in retrospect, he may still have called if I had put him all in.

Once again thanks to both of you for your responses.

 
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Sun Jan 29, 2012, 08:34 PM
(#5)
Austerror's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 85
On the topic of flopping monsters, i have to say thank you as well.. usually in this situation i would've checked and slow played it but after watching your video dave i tried to build a bigger pot.. i was trying to keep both guys in the hand with my min bets but here it is..

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=13619522FA

don't know why the hand replayer isn't working atm..

Last edited by Austerror; Sun Jan 29, 2012 at 08:38 PM..
 

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