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Final table question

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Final table question - Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:04 AM
(#1)
snife20's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 58
BronzeStar
hey guys just want to know your opinion on these hand.
im chip leader and 4 players remaining.did i do the right thing here?

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner
 
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Mon Jan 30, 2012, 04:36 AM
(#2)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
This looks like a 45 man turbo judging by the stack sizes. I'm curious what the experts say, but I think I'm folding in this spot.

I would have gladly put the original raiser all in preflop had it just been the two of you. However, a min reraise so late in the game must mean something. What was your read on the minraiser? I'm thinking he must be AK+, in which case he isn't going to fold to a shove.

Being aggressive with your big stack is definitely the way to play, but you need to pick your spots. Here I would simply fold and hope that the short stack gets knocked out putting you one spot closer to 1st place finish.

GL
Roland GTX
 
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Mon Jan 30, 2012, 04:55 AM
(#3)
snife20's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 58
BronzeStar
im thinking that on this spot he would be raising wide in position to isolate the big blind and push him allin. Do you think my push here is +EV? because i dont really know how to calculate them haha
 
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Mon Jan 30, 2012, 05:34 AM
(#4)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by snife20 View Post
im thinking that on this spot he would be raising wide in position to isolate the big blind and push him allin. Do you think my push here is +EV? because i dont really know how to calculate them haha
I guess he could be min-raising out of weakness with a medium pocket pair or something that is foldable. But if he is playing that way, then I wouldn't expect to see him at the ft.

+/-EV
Google "pokerstove" and download it (it is free). Then you can put in the range of hands (or random hand) for the minraiser. Do the same for the short stacked original raiser. And for your KQ hand. The program will spit out the probability that you will win the hand. This is a great tool!

After that, you need to estimate how often the min-raiser will fold to your all in reraise. This is your "fold equity".

In this particular situation, the short stack makes things more complex since he is unlikely to fold.

To keep things easy, let's ignore the short stack and just look at you and the minraiser. Let's say the minraiser will fold 50% of the time to your shove. That means you win (against him) 50% of the time and go to a showdown 50% of the time. If pokerstove says you win the showdown 50% of the time then you get the following:
1- 50% of the time reraiser folds
2- 25% of the time you win the showdown
3- 25% of the time you lose the showdown

Calculate your gain/loss in chips for these three situations. Make a weighted average by muliplying the chip gain in situation 1 by 50%, situation 2 by 25% and situation 3 by 25%, then add these numbers together. If you get a positive number then you are ev+, if you get a negative number then you are ev-.

There is probably a good post somewhere explaining this. If not, I can make one clearer than the mess above Furthermore, note that the % in the example above are not the correct numbers, I just used them to make the example easy to follow!

GL

Roland GTX
 
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Mon Jan 30, 2012, 09:13 AM
(#5)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
A couple things I see. First, there are 6 remaining, not 4. Knowing a little more about the structure would help a bit.
2nd, the first raise has only about 10 BB's, so if the 2nd raise is attempting to isolate, it is against him, not you. But this player isn't pushing him all in. He's looking for some action. This would say very loudly to me that KQ is seriously behind and I would fold.

Be aggressive with the lead, but still protect it. Facing 2 raises, fold. You should believe that the original raise is shoving here because a raise/fold with 10BB is worse than not shoving to begin with..unless HE is the one with the monster.
 
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Mon Jan 30, 2012, 12:33 PM
(#6)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!111Dan View Post

Be aggressive with the lead, but still protect it. Facing 2 raises, fold. You should believe that the original raise is shoving here because a raise/fold with 10BB is worse than not shoving to begin with..unless HE is the one with the monster.
Great point! Thanks for the eye opener.
 
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Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:38 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!111Dan View Post
A couple things I see. First, there are 6 remaining, not 4. Knowing a little more about the structure would help a bit.
2nd, the first raise has only about 10 BB's, so if the 2nd raise is attempting to isolate, it is against him, not you. But this player isn't pushing him all in. He's looking for some action. This would say very loudly to me that KQ is seriously behind and I would fold.

Be aggressive with the lead, but still protect it. Facing 2 raises, fold. You should believe that the original raise is shoving here because a raise/fold with 10BB is worse than not shoving to begin with..unless HE is the one with the monster.

Hi snife,

I basically agree with Dan here, I think the 3-bettor isolating the first raiser is going to have a strong range, because raise/folding a 10bb stack is a major spew so he expects the first raiser to get all in with him, not fold to the isolation. KQ does not play well vs. his range, really it's not beating anything in that range (best case scenario is flipping as an underdog vs. hands like TT/JJ). I also expect our fold equity on a 4b shove to be extremely low given the stack sizes and strong ranges, so I think this is pretty squarely -EV and a good spot to fold imo.

Dave


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Mon Jan 30, 2012, 07:53 PM
(#8)
snife20's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 58
BronzeStar
yeah i think i should have folded there.well its a lesson learned for me.:
sorry bout that its 6 handed and thank for the analysis guys
 
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Tue Jan 31, 2012, 09:28 AM
(#9)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
protect chip lead at all times

don't gamble

use small ball strategy, be the raiser pre in position btn or CO then take the pot down on a cbet, everyone will be afraid of you because of your stack size

if opp shows strength just fold and try it again
 
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Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:22 AM
(#10)
gatehouse999's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 259
I have a question, WTF is a final table ???? lol
 

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