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$1 45-man SnG: AKs, Do I make the Call?

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$1 45-man SnG: AKs, Do I make the Call? - Tue Jan 31, 2012, 03:33 PM
(#1)
EmotiveKiwi's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

Yesterday I played this hand but I was not sure how to proceed with the hand:

The Villain had about 14 BBs remaining and I had 41 BBs. I had only played 24 hands with the villain but from what I did have on him was he tended to be a fishy player, his VPIP was 46% over the 24 hands with a 21% PFR%. While he played a large portion of his hands I had not seen him continuation bet. He had open raised 43% of his raises from EP.

I called his pre-flop raise of 3x (450 chips) and everyone else folded. I was in position and he fired 600 chips on a flop of 9c2s3c. I was ranging him on something like Jacks or Queens at this stage and was pretty sure I was behind. I called the raise of 600 chips.

The turn comes down 4h. The Villain bets the rest of his stack of 1050 chips. I am pretty sure now he has either Jacks or Queens but am leaning more towards him having Queens than Jacks.

I'm positive i'm behind but the turn card gave me 4 more outs to add to my 6 outs... Do I make this call???
 
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Tue Jan 31, 2012, 04:20 PM
(#2)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
Nice to have some info on the guy

With the stats you gave on his opening from EP, I'm not putting him on a big hand when he makes bet, so I'm definitely calling. I might even 3bet him, figuring AK is way ahead of his range. Downside would be that if I 3bet to something like 1100, there's a good chance he'll shove on me and I wouldn't wanna call that with an AK. I have a nice stack now, but calling off a 3rd of my chips? So if I do decide to 3bet, it's going to be a shove and let him decide if his hand is good enough to go to showdown with. At least that will take the decision away from me, and deny him the chance to shove in an attempt to get me to fold.

The flop doesn't do diddly for me. No draws, no pairs, the best I have is a backdoor draw and two overs. Again, since you've never seen him cbet, I'm inclined to think he may actually have something here. I'll wait for another spot and muck the AK. Also - I think it's bad poker to bet 600 out of my 1600 stack in that spot the way he did. That means I would consider him to be a weakish player, so I'm not putting him on a bluff or semi-bluff here. He's got it made on the flop.
Preflop, AK is a premium hand. On a flop like this, it's just the nut-no-pair, almost worthless. plus - what do I do if the turn missed me again, and he shoves?

Turn is the 4, giving me a straight draw. So I figure by now I have 10 outs.
He shoves for 1k into 3.3k, giving me 30%. In order to make the call I have to have at least a 30% chance to make my best hand. With my 10 outs I'm getting about 20%, so definitely not enough to draw to the rivercard. Good fold on the turn, but as said: I'd rather have seen it on the flop.

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keeping track of my poker semi-career: ov3rsight.blog.com

Last edited by Ov3rsight; Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 04:25 PM..
 
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Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:27 PM
(#3)
ahar010's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 614
Gidday EmotiveKiwi.

I think we need a plan for this hand.

When he opens UTG for 3x it looks strong, but ahead of AKs? Given your stats on him not by much. With his stack size I think this is a 3b for me. They are still some players left to act with big stacks but they are unlikely to want to mess with us but I don't know if I'm folding AKs if someone else comes over the top so I'm just moving in here. I'm looking to isolate vs this guy or even just take down the pot right here and pick up 675 chips. If we are planning on calling a CBet on the flop I really think we should be moving in preflop. Calling twice and then thinking about folding I think is a spew of chips.

On the flop he bets into us. I don't like the flatting here. If we flat call we're unlikley to be able to get him out of the hand any more. We get to see 1 more card and then he has the option to bet again. If we think he's cbetting and we are ahead I would prefer moving in over the top, leveraging a small ammount of fold equity and atleast getting an ok price now to see 2 more cards. If you think he's hit his hand I think we give it up.

I think we've played the AKs too passively here. We have his stack well covered, we are well ahead of his range. I would rather we try and put the pressure on.

Good Luck
Andy




Quad Bracelet Winner

 
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Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:40 PM
(#4)
EmotiveKiwi's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Gidday Andy (go the AllBlacks) and Oversight, thanks for the feedback appreciate the comments.

I cut off the rest of the hand to just isolate my question. What happened was I ended up calling his all-in and he did in fact have QQ and won the pot. It did feel like I was leaking the chips at the time and agree that I should have folded on the flop or pushed over the top.

I find AK a tough hand to play mostly due to the history i've had with it but the analysis provided has given me a better insight.

Thanks very much
 
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Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:54 PM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmotiveKiwi View Post
I find AK a tough hand to play mostly due to the history i've had with it but the analysis provided has given me a better insight.
Hi Kiwi!

Be sure to check out Dave's (TheLangolier) live training sessions. He is going to be running a series on playing AK. They will be from cash games, but the same situations will apply to most tourneys.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Feb 01, 2012, 12:15 AM
(#6)
EmotiveKiwi's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Hi Kiwi!

Be sure to check out Dave's (TheLangolier) live training sessions. He is going to be running a series on playing AK. They will be from cash games, but the same situations will apply to most tourneys.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)
Awesome, thanks for that. I hope my live training issues will be sorted by then or if not they will be recorded
 
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Wed Feb 01, 2012, 01:43 AM
(#7)
ahar010's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmotiveKiwi View Post
Gidday Andy (go the AllBlacks) and Oversight, thanks for the feedback appreciate the comments.

I cut off the rest of the hand to just isolate my question. What happened was I ended up calling his all-in and he did in fact have QQ and won the pot. It did feel like I was leaking the chips at the time and agree that I should have folded on the flop or pushed over the top.

I find AK a tough hand to play mostly due to the history i've had with it but the analysis provided has given me a better insight.

Thanks very much
Rugby season coming up soon. I'm almost rugby'ed out though after the world cup We'll see how the rugby feels now having the World Cup monkey lifted from the back after 24 years.

I understand the feeling of leaking chips, this has come about by the passive line taken. When we take a passive line we give the other person control in the hand. They can put us to difficult decisions where we can make mistakes. Often times we find ourselves in a spot where the decisions is which option is less wrong.

The spot on the turn if we fold we're giving up all the chips we've put in thus far and all the equity we have in the hand with 10 outs (20% equity). If we call we're putting in more good money after bad trying to make up for the mistake. So both ways we go we're losing equity, it now becomes a matter of which option loses less equity for me.

This is a bit results orientated here but still illustrative now that we're up against the top of his range. Moving in to isolate preflop AKs vs QQ we have 46% equity in a pot of 4425 (assuming he calls) That gives us 2035 chips in equity and we're investiing 2100 so in the long run we're only losing 65 chips in this spot. Add this to all the times he folds, the times he has worse than QQ and the times we have him dominated.

One tip to practice to avoid being too passive is to only give yourself the options to raise or fold. No calling. This can help polarize our thoughts in the hand.

We think either "Raise in this spot are you kidding me??" in which case we should probably be folding.

Or we think "I can't fold this hand, look how pretty it is!" in which case we should probably be raising.

This isn't obviously a formula for perfect poker. There are times calling or even limping is correct. But I think it helps to solidify your own thoughts on your hand. It just then becomes a matter of not guts no glory




Quad Bracelet Winner

 
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Wed Feb 01, 2012, 03:19 AM
(#8)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Great points Andy! (Thanks for an interesting live session yesterday too - my first)

I used to be really tight passive ending up in situations like this. Now, similar to what you mention, I ask myself the following:
1. "Would I have called preflop had the villian moved all in (rather than raising 25% of his stack)"
2. "Do I intend to call/raise a c-bet if I brick the flop?"

If I answer yes to either, or both, of these questions, then I'll just 3-bet all in preflop. It keeps things simple and gives us all the advantages you mentioned.

Roland GTX
 
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Wed Feb 01, 2012, 12:10 PM
(#9)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
hey emotivekiwi,

agree with Roland

i have 6k chips and opp have 2k chips just 3bet all in and let's see 5 cards

even if we lose we will still be left with 4k chips in a 75/150 so very playable
 
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Wed Feb 01, 2012, 03:20 PM
(#10)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Hi Kiwi!

Be sure to check out Dave's (TheLangolier) live training sessions. He is going to be running a series on playing AK. They will be from cash games, but the same situations will apply to most tourneys.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)
I'm going to have to look that up, be real interested to see what he has to say.

------------------------------------------
keeping track of my poker semi-career: ov3rsight.blog.com
 
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Wed Feb 01, 2012, 10:03 PM
(#11)
EmotiveKiwi's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahar010 View Post
Rugby season coming up soon. I'm almost rugby'ed out though after the world cup We'll see how the rugby feels now having the World Cup monkey lifted from the back after 24 years.
Mate was sooo awesome to finally win that again I did watch every single game of the World Cup lol. By the way it is the year of the Chiefs....you heard it here first !!!!!!

Thanks to all that have posted comments to my poker hand I appreciate it greatly.

Cheers and good luck to all.
 

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