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folding AA preflop!

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folding AA preflop! - Wed Feb 01, 2012, 07:35 AM
(#1)
godofcricket's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 49
Is there any situation you fold AA preflop in a tourney?
 
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Wed Feb 01, 2012, 07:49 AM
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roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
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Maybe on the bubble of a satty, where if I call I can go out before getting the ticket... that is it
 
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Wed Feb 01, 2012, 07:52 AM
(#3)
AlUnders's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 41
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First hand in the open skill league.....with 5 all ins
 
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Wed Feb 01, 2012, 09:21 AM
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m.bisland's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,260
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When 4+ Russians shove before you.
 
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Wed Feb 01, 2012, 01:11 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,812
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*** moved to tourney strategy section JWK24***

Hey all!

I'll gladly fold it on the bubble of a satellite as long as I have enough chips to get the ticket.

First hand of a skill league game.... "Let's play BINGO". No way am I folding there. I'll even play 9-way bingo there with it. KK in that situation, muck city.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner



Last edited by JWK24; Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 01:26 PM..
 
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Wed Feb 01, 2012, 01:13 PM
(#6)
electrux_hcb's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 59
I've folded AA on/close to the bubble a few times, in both cash and league tourneys. Also as has already been mentioned I'm hesitant to call a shove with AA too if theres more than one other on the pot. You know the russian/ukranian donks have the poker gods on their side.
 
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Wed Feb 01, 2012, 03:36 PM
(#7)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
Last year on PokerStars The Big Game one of the Loose Cannons just doubled up bigtime to take the lead for the WPT season ticket and was dealt pocket aces 2/3 of the way. He folded them from the small blind when aak had raised with pocket 6 and was called by Cada with pocklet 4. Laak flopped quads there, so the Loose Cannon could've gone broke there had he called/raised.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHiEkikhDGU

------------------------------------------------
keeping track of my poker semi-career: ov3rsight.blog.com
 
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Sat Feb 04, 2012, 08:53 AM
(#8)
Dany Boy NZ's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrux_hcb View Post
I've folded AA on/close to the bubble a few times, in both cash and league tourneys. Also as has already been mentioned I'm hesitant to call a shove with AA too if theres more than one other on the pot. You know the russian/ukranian donks have the poker gods on their side.
I wud stronbly advise againts folding AA preflop in cash tournys even near the bubble. The benifit you will gain from doubling up 80% of the time far outweighs the annoyance of getting knocked out the other 20%.

I guess if your table is very soft and your in a slowish tourny in terms of blind structure then it is more acceptable but still that double up that AA so often provides can send you on deep runs you would otherwise miss out on and we all know the money is deep in a tourny not just inside the bubble.
 
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Sat Feb 04, 2012, 09:19 AM
(#9)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
hi all i definate think aa is over rated and depending on the format yes should be folded pre flop in certain situations
bubble posisitions
multipots
against donks
 
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Sun Feb 26, 2012, 05:40 PM
(#10)
John Rambo43's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 11
Only time im folding AA pre is in a satty bubble. When im playing an MTT its to win the whole thing, not to mincash. I'll take AA on the bubble of a tourny any time.
 
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Sun Feb 26, 2012, 07:20 PM
(#11)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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Hi John Rambo 43!

Welcome to the forum.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner



Last edited by JWK24; Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 05:53 PM..
 
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Sun Feb 26, 2012, 07:24 PM
(#12)
PINOY_HITMAN's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,717
for me only in this situation

1. Sat bubble when i am sure i won't be blinded out in next couple of hand but not in situation that the next couple
of hand i will be the BB and i am not sure if i gonna made pass the bubble.
2.Last Day of the Skill League Open/Premiere with still more than half of the field and early exit will
cause me Premiere League ticket or will relegate me back to Open League.

Last edited by PINOY_HITMAN; Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 07:26 PM..
 
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Sun Feb 26, 2012, 07:26 PM
(#13)
Django66's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrux_hcb View Post
I've folded AA on/close to the bubble a few times, in both cash and league tourneys. Also as has already been mentioned I'm hesitant to call a shove with AA too if theres more than one other on the pot. You know the russian/ukranian donks have the poker gods on their side.
that's just bad, and i won't even comment on holdemape !!

sorry mods



edit: aimho

Last edited by Django66; Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 07:30 PM..
 
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Sun Feb 26, 2012, 07:42 PM
(#14)
Django66's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofcricket View Post
Is there any situation you fold AA preflop in a tourney?

lol, i presume we are talking holdem here, i just this minute folded aces in the hole in a stud tourney with the other 2 aces showing.
 
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Mon Feb 27, 2012, 02:14 AM
(#15)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by roomik17 View Post
Maybe on the bubble of a satty, where if I call I can go out before getting the ticket... that is it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dany Boy NZ View Post
I wud stronbly advise againts folding AA preflop in cash tournys even near the bubble. The benifit you will gain from doubling up 80% of the time far outweighs the annoyance of getting knocked out the other 20%.

I guess if your table is very soft and your in a slowish tourny in terms of blind structure then it is more acceptable but still that double up that AA so often provides can send you on deep runs you would otherwise miss out on and we all know the money is deep in a tourny not just inside the bubble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rambo43 View Post
Only time im folding AA pre is in a satty bubble. When im playing an MTT its to win the whole thing, not to mincash. I'll take AA on the bubble of a tourny any time.
THESE!!!


Satellites and the bubble of skill league games IF YOU CAN BUST in the hand ONLY.

The money in MTT's is NOT in the min-cashes,play to stack up and go deep. For the few times you do bust short of the money in this kind of spot the rewards for stacking up and running deep are so much better that it is a +EV situation. Period. SNG's the same way. You do NOT fold premium hands pre in these either for no reason. There is NEVER a reason in any cash MTT or SNG to do so with AA pre-flop (well maybe that spot that Trap came up with about the WSOP tourney last year...but THAT is an implied odds type of deal...so no real bearing here).

Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
hi all i definate think aa is over rated and depending on the format yes should be folded pre flop in certain situations
bubble posisitions
multipots
against donks

NEVER THIS!!!


You're willing to fold AA at the bubble and in multi-pots pre-flop and YOU call THEM the donks?

If you are folding AA pre-flop at the money bubble or in multi pots in $ MTT's and SNG's you have no business playing poker for money. NONE.

So please find a way top reload ASAP.

OMFG

By the way...you forgot to mention...to fold AA when you've won with it twice in a row...because the odds say you'll lose with it the 3rd time...especially if someone wakes up with a monster like 62o.

62o is duuuuuuue...................

Un-fricking-believable.



Last edited by Moxie Pip; Mon Feb 27, 2012 at 02:28 AM..
 
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Mon Mar 05, 2012, 05:36 AM
(#16)
John Rambo43's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 11
^^^well said!
 
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Mon Mar 05, 2012, 07:16 AM
(#17)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Folding AA pre flop, quite rare.

1) Early in DEEP money structure of a large field event vs mulitple all in's in front when I feel I have a significant skill advantage on the field, AND when the buy in represents a large portion of my total bank roll (in other words, a min cash would be quite huge for me).

Think: 1st hand of the WSOP main event for a 1/2 live player on short money.

In this spot you may well find a fold necessary as passing 5 all in's your overall equity versus the field begins to dip below 50%. Losing a bit over half the time does not seem appealing to me to add a sextuple to my stack if I have well over 100BB and can probably get those chips from bad players without busting half the time.

There can easily be times when you have as little as around 35% total equity versus all the all in's as well.

Sure, gaining that huge chip up probably allows me to crush my table, but in a large field event that sextuple up will not necessarily mean I can stop playing and post and fold to the money anyway.

I do not want to court a big chance to bust off ANY chance of cashing for even a huge chip up that may not be enough to assure a cash.

2) In a Flat pay structure Event very close to the bubble when I have a stack quite a bit above average, and not in danger from blinding down.

Flat pay structure events are those like sattelites that give anyone who makes it ITM the same prize. In these events getting ITM with even 1 chip is the same as getting ITM with a million chips.

It is quite conceivable that in a near bubble situation a decent sized stack gives in excess of 90% chance of making the money, and versus some hands AA may have as little as 77% equity. I'd not want to trade my "sure" equity chance for extra chips I do not need to improve my pay out.

3) In a cumulative point league structure, where early busts are penalized heavily, and there is not a similar "off-set" to running deeply, if there are multiple all in's.

If the bulk of your advancement in leagues of this type is derived from middle finishes, I'd be loathe to seek "extra" chips that may not give me benefit commensurate to the better than 50% chance I might be taking of busting. I'd not be worried about playing vs 2 or 3 all in's necessarily, but once we begin to hit 4 or 5, my thinking starts to change a bit.

-JDean


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Mon Mar 05, 2012, 06:39 PM
(#18)
Briany84's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 251
Look, ive read all the posts from every one and ive read all the MODS replys..

I am NO Phil Ivey,

BUT LET ME SAY THIS, THE DAY I FOLD AA PRE FLOP IS THE DAY I GIVE UP PLAYING POKER!!!!

Yes it is about skill and about finishing ITM, but its also about having a little GAMBLE in ya,

For Fck Sakes, fold AA Pre??

I'll give up playing poker FIRST.......
 

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