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Help! I think i SUCK

Help! I think i SUCK - Sat Feb 04, 2012, 06:26 PM
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 4
Hi guys. Ive been playing for a while but im new to online play(playing six max 2,10,25 nl). I deposited 25 worked it up to 400 and lost it all. Then deposited 100 and same result. I think its a combination of bad beats, bad play and tilt. Hero calls in bad spots has been expensive as well

So now ive decided to step back and re-evaluate my entire game and learn as much as possible before reloading. So far i have been re reading David Sklanskys books and analyzing my pokertracker( although its relatively new).

If anybody has had similar problems or has any input it would be very much appreciated, thanks!

Last edited by ELSPROULO; Sat Feb 04, 2012 at 06:29 PM..
Sat Feb 04, 2012, 06:40 PM
Don B. Cilly's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 394
Yeah, I've had similar probs :)
I never deposited, actually, I got loaned/staked by a friend.
I lost it all ($2 :)
So what I did was just play freerolls and vpps, got most of it back and paid it back. Slowly.
Meantime, gained some experience in online play.

Then... I discovered this place. Lurked the forums. Payed attention when some hand analysers analysed (notably one, who does go on - thank him that he does) - but quite a few others.

Started paying attention to the game, opponents, my silly spots, my intuition... check my graphs on pokerprolabs, SNGs particularly, guess when I started reading here :)
Sat Feb 04, 2012, 07:11 PM
PLaws62's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 329
there are a lot of trianing videos in the forum ,and better still i would recomend is live training ,these classes are fun and you can get some anwsers ,as well as meeting some pso members and trainers
Sat Feb 04, 2012, 07:11 PM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814

The first thing that I would look at would be bankroll management.
For cash tables, I never try to sit down with more than 10% of my bankroll that's allocated for cash games and I always buy-in for the maximum. Playing 6-max, I would use an even lower % of my banroll, as the variance could be a bit more than a full ring game.
For mtt's, I never play for more than 1/100th of what my mtt bankroll is.

By following this, I've been able to withstand the variance that is bound to happen and still be able to have a bankroll thru the bad streaks.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


6 Time Bracelet Winner

Sat Feb 04, 2012, 07:12 PM
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
hi els i can concur with you in the fullest i too have had various problems,my first advice would be to do what you are saying and take the time off,i too am doing something similar playing playchips etc at the moment for practice,avoid at all cost trying to fast track winnings,stick to strong bankroll management which is explained on this forum,or just start a topic m8t in community meet up about what you think you need to know,try the videos m8t on here they are quite good and i found loads of new tricks through them.
Ajustment m8t to internet poker is difficult but not impossible ,you just see a lot more hands and a lot more beats because of this,so caution sometimes a must.
Hope this helps you in some way ned to know just ask m8t i do lol.
Sat Feb 04, 2012, 07:35 PM
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
I have to agree with JWK. With Good Ban Roll Management then you still get the bad beats but they don't bankrupt you.

so for cash games you should be looking at something like this
2NL $80
5NL $200
10NL $400
25NL $1000
50NL $2000

Read more: Grade b's 2012 Goals - PokerSchoolOnline Forum http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...#ixzz1lSlFYdbA

These arent my idea but finally i am using them They came from one of the live trainers here I think it was Xflix hmm ok i will edit in a minute when i find it it is


This video will be a good one to watch

Grade b

I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner

Sat Feb 04, 2012, 07:46 PM
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 4
Wow thanks for all the feedback everyone. I appreciate it! Bankroll management is definitely a problem, ill study up on that. Im moving up limits too quickly partly cuz some of the plays you see in 2,5,10nl are surprising to say the least lol. I think ill reload enough so ill be properly rolled for 10nl and try to work back up to 25nl nice and slow

As for the classes tomorrow ill be there and ill be reading and watching videos until then. See you guys there. Thanks for the help
Sat Feb 04, 2012, 08:01 PM
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 4
Thanks grade b, I have been playing with about 50% of the proper bankroll up until now. 3 or 4 bad beats or plays and things look bleak when you do that. Oh well thats an easy fix i guess. Ill just keep looking for leaks and play with a proper roll from now on.
Sat Feb 04, 2012, 08:29 PM
Djmahony123's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 143
ElSPROULO, take a look at my thread in this forum that I am looking for students. I think I can help you.
practising on the play tables advice - Thu Feb 16, 2012, 04:45 PM
neil_mach555's Avatar
Since: Feb 2012
Posts: 2
If you are going to take the recommended advice of PokerStars and use the free tables to hone some skills be aware that if you directly translate these learned strategies to a cash game or paid tournament of any size or type that you are going to run into problems. The play is sooooo loose that it's a game of luck at the ring tables for most but all of the highest levels. And the early stages of pretty much any Freeroll games are just as nutz. I would reccomend sticking to the freerolls and or low buy in (2c) games and playing tight as a erm Nun for the first few levels unless you have a strong pocket pair or call the blinds for minimum and flop big. As any hand goes and you can't even push a 7-2 off suit off a hand with A K 10 showing. So bluffing is way out. Actually bluffing most of the time is useless unless you get on a table for at least 10+ hands and only show winners. Once the field is down to a third or less you can begin to take real notes on play and players. This shouldn't bee to hard to reach in 1 out of 7 to 10 games played to allow for the bad beats you are going to recieve from that *#!@ faced $#@!!!@# that called your Aces with rags and pulled trips to your two pair bustin you outta the game before the bubble. Another way to get a few more levels ahead is to let those types of players bust out after you have doubled or tripled your stack. exit the game for 10 minutes don't even look at the folded hands go by and get tempted lol then return and play the game when more of the players are likely to be respecting the hands and positions etc... That's my advice. You can't judge your skill after such a short time it's like chess theres way more to it than how to move a piece or two and as I have found with poker it can be far more involved than chess most of the time once you get deep into a game with the same players.
Thu Feb 16, 2012, 05:14 PM
neil_mach555's Avatar
Since: Feb 2012
Posts: 2
oh and as for ring games you want to have at least 100 big blinds even if they aren't showing on the table. That's maybe what happened at the tables your were at when you saw odd play. they were testin you to learn your strategy and outplay you. Those levels from $2+ have a lot of grinders that make their living from the new fish. Stay clear of those tables till you have a year or two of solid playing behind you. Stick to levels that the semi-pro's and poker is my job types don't bother with like the $1 and under tourneys and the 25c-50c ring games. Just remember about the rake. never win or lose a hand and eventually you will end up broke at any ring game. Go for the tourneys either single or multi table ones. (sit n go's). I recommend single tables at first as the multi table ones may have you getting bored or loosing concentration after a while. Also early strategy is different that once you have a nice sized stack double at least or triple or more the average. Plus if you do wish to bluff the adage of triple or pot to make your stand needs to be multiplied for respect from most low limit players that are most likely steaming or on tilt from getting slaughtered in a ring game five minutes earlier, with tears of fury in their eyes and a crushed mouse in their hands. Erm not that I would know about that hmhmmm hhmmm....lol Poker is an emotional game and it's like the race car driver that hasn't hit the wall.... he just hasn't yet.
Thu Feb 16, 2012, 07:09 PM
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
Hi Elsproulo.

I have a bit of a different "take" on Bank Roll management than some.

I view BR management simply as this:

It is a method for a WINNING PLAYER to stay "in action", even if he/she has currently hit a down swing due to variance.

Let's look a bit closer at that statement...

You MUST be a winning player for BR management to have any real use for you.

Since there are so few long term winning players, it is probably a good bet that if you ARE one, you probably do not need to grind the micros and learn about BR management techniques; you either KNOW BR management techniques already and are trying to get back up, or you are merely waiting to run up a big score to jump back up to levels you are more comfortable with (that you probably busted out of due to poor BR management).

so unfortunate as it is to say, most people who are micro stakes players that pose these sorts of questions, and/or spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about them are probably LOSING players, seeking some "magic bullet" to help prevent their losing. I hate to be the bearer of bad news: BR management isn't a magic bullet to shoot you into profitability...

It is all simple mathematics: if you are a losing player, a player with a -eV when they sit at a table, just like someone playing craps or roulette if you continue to play eventually you WILL lose all your money. All BR management techniques can hope to do for you is SLOW the rate at which you might lose, in hopes that in that time you INCREASE your play skills to become a +eV player.

Now before you think this sounds harsh Elsproulo, please understand that if you do not yet have the skills to be a winning player (I do not know if you do or not), you CAN get some useful practice in BR management while you are developing your skills, just do not expect them to be a "magic bullet" for your profitability. But there are alos other things you probably have to learn first...

Things that may serve you BETTER in terms of your profit potential than worrying about BR management at the micro levels if you are not yet a winning player are:


No off felt factor will effect your profitability more than game selection, and this is a widely diverse topic. It will tend to bear you a lot more benefit to improve game selection rather than worrying about managing a micro stakes BR that you could possibly "replace" by missing a few lunches at work instead of buying McDonald's.


Chances are you do not want to STAY at the micro stakes forever, right? Gaining some exposure at different levels of play to put to work the principles you study about can go quite a long way to preparing you for moves up in levels.

I am not suggesting you jump willy nilly into 200NL games, or The Sunday Million MTT, but putting some of your available money (preferably winnings) at work to TRY your skills at higher levels, levels that you'd probably be able to cash some money out at (if you are profitable), can go a long way toward broadening your overall skill set. If this damages your chances of staying in action a bit at levels you are not likely to take any cash outs form, so be it...it is probably worth it in the long term.


Looking at techniques to help you better review your play decisions can really help you to get around the "negative feedback loop" of poker.

It can be incredibly helpful to learn about how to keep effective records of your play so you know the specifics of what you are doing.

Things like finding a poker "mentor", finding players with whom you can discuss poker hands (not just some nebulous topic like "BR management"), joining discussion groups that talk about specific hands, and seeking poker coaching are all things which will tend to yield immediate changes in the way you approach the game. a lot of times, those changes will move you closer to becoming a winning player.


After you have these things down cold, THEN you can start to look at BR management...

It is probably a good bet that until you have these things down though, you will really NEED BR management.

Hope it helps.


Double Bracelet Winner

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