Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

10NL K,Qs in position in a 3Bet vs Unkown

View Poll Results: What is the right play?
FOLD 1 16.67%
FLAT CALL 1 16.67%
SHOVE 4 66.67%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

Old
Default
10NL K,Qs in position in a 3Bet vs Unkown - Mon Feb 06, 2012, 02:52 PM
(#1)
deadeyz's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 114
Hi! guys, no reads on the opp.



Is opening with K,Qs in the middle position a loose play or can it be profitable? Probably should have fold pre-flop once I got 3 bet but once we get that flop, whats the best course of action? Should we raise on the flop or just flat call and evaluate the situation on the turn? If we flat and the turn bricks I suppose it easy fold then.

Cheers.
 
Old
Default
Mon Feb 06, 2012, 05:29 PM
(#2)
PSOB!gSl!ck3r's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 9
WhiteStar
Opening preflop is fine. But you should fold to the big 3bet without any further information.

On the flop, the SPR already is below 3. You flop a flush draw, backdoor straight draw and two overcards. Even if he's 3betting only QQ+/AK, which is a fairly tight assumption, you have over 40% pot equity and some fold equity. Therefore a shove is probably the right play here.
 
Old
Default
Tue Feb 07, 2012, 09:44 AM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSOB!gSl!ck3r View Post
Opening preflop is fine. But you should fold to the big 3bet without any further information.

On the flop, the SPR already is below 3. You flop a flush draw, backdoor straight draw and two overcards. Even if he's 3betting only QQ+/AK, which is a fairly tight assumption, you have over 40% pot equity and some fold equity. Therefore a shove is probably the right play here.
+1, with a shove he's probably stacking off QQ+ (he should be) but he may well fold AK and that hand specifically has around 53% equity in the pot.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
Default
Tue Feb 07, 2012, 12:33 PM
(#4)
deadeyz's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
+1, with a shove he's probably stacking off QQ+ (he should be) but he may well fold AK and that hand specifically has around 53% equity in the pot.
Hi! Thanks for your comments guys, much appreciated and very helpful as always.

Wouldn't shoving on the flop be obvious that we are on the flush draw? Could it be a better line to peel one card and then make a move on the turn? Wouldn't that look a bit more strong then just shoving on the flop?

Cheers.
 
Old
Default
Tue Feb 07, 2012, 01:04 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadeyz View Post
Hi! Thanks for your comments guys, much appreciated and very helpful as always.

Wouldn't shoving on the flop be obvious that we are on the flush draw? Could it be a better line to peel one card and then make a move on the turn? Wouldn't that look a bit more strong then just shoving on the flop?

Cheers.
Not if it were me shoving. For example, I would be shoving sets here and AA/KK as well when I chose to flat those pre (a line I will take knowing the stacks and that I will have an easy commitment plan post flop)..

Regardless, the low spr scenario prevents waiting until the turn from being a good option. If we call this bet there will be 7.28 in the pot and the guy only has 6.21 behind. If he barrels the turn, it's an all in bet, and when you've missed you'll be faced with calling getting a bit more than 2-1 on a 4-1 shot (flush draw with 1 card to come) and you'll have to fold off what is reasonable equity in a large pot. I think we need a higher spr or smaller c-bet by the villain to make this a more viable option, as is we just aren't left with the room to maneuver.

Dave


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com