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Random card distribution on stars?

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Random card distribution on stars? - Tue Feb 07, 2012, 03:27 AM
(#1)
pepsipanda16's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
I took a good 8 years of convincing to join online poker from my friends. I have played on stars for 2 weeks now and its hard to believe it is random when i see the same beats over and over. People calling huge shoves when not commited with second pair and hitting it on the river more times then it holds. then the running straight when drawing practically dead( i pik this cause i saw it happen 6 consecutive times in the same tourney when it was possible) some please explain to me how the random stuff works cause it seems to just change the ways to loss each day
 
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Tue Feb 07, 2012, 04:46 AM
(#2)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,022
(Community Coordinator)
Hi pepsipanda16,

Thank you for your query.

We have had the 'Random Cards' question pop up quite frequently in the forum.

Pokerstars uses a Random Number Generator or 'RNG' system which is independently audited and certified by a company called Cigital.

If you click the link below you will find a page all about the RNG process.


Sometimes it might appear that there is one bad beat after another but you would need a vast sample size of hands to get a clear picture. It's proven that over time good play and correct decisions always win out in the end.

I hope this answer was of some help.

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Feb 07, 2012, 08:24 AM
(#3)
Da Sens Fan's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,118
To be honest, most of the people that complain about good hands not holding up are new players that don't understand the percentages very well. If these people don't know the most basic of percentages than how can they possibly know if it's really that bad of a beat.

Example: What are the odds of As Kd holding up against 7c 2c

- Most new players would assume the AK should win quite often when it is only a 62.61% chance of winning with a 0.45% split.

----------

Online poker you are seeing rapid hands often at very , very low levels. You will without a shadow of doubt see more suckouts merely due to the sheer number of hands you see.

There have been many, many elite number crunchers that have tried to find a flaw in Pstars number generators and none have been found.

I suggest focusing on your game and not trying to find various excuses for losing streaks. Variance will happen in poker, no matter how good or bad you are. Keep playing well and you will win online.

My 2 cents on the topic, best of luck
 
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Tue Feb 07, 2012, 09:09 AM
(#4)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
these types of situations happen all the time at micro levels, often at low stakes, and become less and less prevalent as the stakes go up. (but still happen)
WHY?... because players tend to get better at the higher stakes and take less chances, because they know the math.
the RNG (random number generator)doesn't have a clue about who is gonna play what and for how much. it just spits out cards randomly (pseudo randomly actually)
so all the bad beats and horrible suckouts are due to the players involved, not the RNG
hope that fairly clearly puts it in perspective for you. GL out there,
MT
 
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reply to pepsipanda16 - Tue Feb 07, 2012, 12:55 PM
(#5)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Hello pepsi i have been playing 4 years on this sight now,and to be honest with you its really hard to play normal poker and you have to ajust your game to different levels and different formats.
I am a recent member of the pso forum and have just spent 2 months giving these on here bare greif over the same type questions.
I dont know what level you play at but playing style does vary at different levels. In another words you can actually out play your self.
The bad beats you are seeing is because in one day on here you are probably are experiencing 4-5 days of continuous live play.
Suggestions for you would be to download if not all ready using a poker hud,this is software that basically keeps opponents stats.
Many people on here use poker huds and multi table. Try playing less,this is one way of avoiding seeing to many beats. Set yourself a daily time limit, or table time limit.
Think how many live hands you would play in a hour for example and work it out off that how many hands to play online.
Avoid getting into all in spots when theres cards to come. Yes +ev spots do work on here but they are no good when you get multiple callers.
I spent 4 years on here scratching my head,and only of late have started to get a grip with it,at the various levels and formats.
I dont want to sound as if im brain washing you mate,but watch the videos on here e.t.c. and i think you will find new things you didnt know as i did.
Hope this helps you and if you need to know anything else,or play advice in an way ,just ask and someone will help you.But the main thing do not let it change your game if your getting your money in good,just ajust the way you play the hand,do not think it is not random because that will seriuos mess with your mind as i was on here at first untill i realised about how many fish were in the sea,
gl
 
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Tue Feb 07, 2012, 02:27 PM
(#6)
pepsipanda16's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
The reason i posted this is hands where I have AK flop come K 10 7 i bet get raised by someone with 20k chips i have 20k chips at like 200/400 blinds so he is no where commited i shovwe and he snap calls with A10 and rivers the 10 i know in this situation on the flop i am an 85% favorite. I had played 12 tourneys yesterda yand busted 4 this way to a snap call from someone that made a play and doesnt need to call or commited but does anyway and get there. that was my issue i know AK to 89 is only a 60% favorite its just frustrating
 
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Tue Feb 07, 2012, 02:42 PM
(#7)
ketchup143's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 279
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepsipanda16 View Post
The reason i posted this is hands where I have AK flop come K 10 7 i bet get raised by someone with 20k chips i have 20k chips at like 200/400 blinds so he is no where commited i shovwe and he snap calls with A10 and rivers the 10 i know in this situation on the flop i am an 85% favorite. I had played 12 tourneys yesterda yand busted 4 this way to a snap call from someone that made a play and doesnt need to call or commited but does anyway and get there. that was my issue i know AK to 89 is only a 60% favorite its just frustrating
when i started on stars i felt the same way. then maybe 6 months later, i realized i was wrong. it's gonna take a lot more than 12 tourneys worth of hands to prove the conjecture u are suggesting.
 
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Tue Feb 07, 2012, 05:42 PM
(#8)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Hi pepsipanda16,welcome to the Forum.

One thing that also hasn't been mentioned here is that Pokerstars uses a random shuffle before each hand and then SETS THE DECK. Just as a casino would.

Meaning there is no continuous shuffle as some sites use. I know that Full Tilt used a continuous shuffle at one time,not sure that they were using one at the end.The only games on Stars that use a continuous shuffle are games like Triple Draw where you can run out of cards.

That means that once the hand is dealt the deck is set. The cards that are going to come are the cards that are going to come. All this blather about multiple clicking or using keys to input your action instead of the mouse or whatever conspiracy theories you have heard are just that---blather.

And whether one or more players checks,min-bets,shoves their whole stack or anything in between the cards that are ALREADY SET,are the cards that are going to come.

So just focus on your reads,proper bet sizing and everything else and let the cards fall as they will. Remember that in the lower stake and micro-levels you are going to see more and more bad plays and therefore more and more insane suckouts. Learn to make this a GOOD thing for you by focusing on making the right decisions as often as possible and you WILL have the advantage. That's all you can do,so do what you can.

When you say that you have played 12 tournaments so far,have they all been scheduled MTT's? Games with 1000 and more runners? Please keep in mind that these are by far they games with the highest level of variance and given the amount of fades,flips and outright suckouts you need to hit and dodge to run truly deep even very good MTT players can have dry spells that last months. HUNDREDS of games,without any real big pops. Which is what your goal in an MTT should be.

If that's the case,as a matter of BRM,may I suggest that you learn (or improve,whichever is more applicable) to play your trade at either ring tables and/or smaller field Sit'N'Go tournaments (from like 90 runners on down). You'll see many more bubbles and therefore many more cashes in these style of mini-tournaments. If you become proficient you can multi-table them as you don't have to wait for a scheduled time for one to start.

Learn to grind out a profit on either or both of these formats and then earmark some of that profit to fund your MTT shots and I think you'll find that the natural variance of the game will take less of a bite out of your hindparts.

If this sounds like a plan to you take a look around the video library here as there is reams of great info on either of these selection of games.

Hope this was helpful.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 05:49 PM..
 
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Tue Feb 07, 2012, 09:08 PM
(#9)
0HighTimes0's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
Hello" pepsi"
gl
I don't buy CocaCola or pepsi (WHO's In Control) as they are same, money made from Coca if you look at history books, Money goes too Mafia , Who Ever that is, eg;
(Seven Sisters'>The Seven Sisters oil documentary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_S...l_companies%29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO2cMQCUpz0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjFpXpQYdos )
OIL, AFTER THAT ITS WATER!
All Thee Best
♠♦HighTimes♥♣
 
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Wed Feb 08, 2012, 12:52 AM
(#10)
0HighTimes0's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 840
Well I recommend this (MYPOST) POST/ SHOULD BE MOVED TO oFF tOPIC'S As should all good post's LOL YEAH BABBY (LOVE)
HOW DO I MOVE MY POST TO APPROPRIATE THREAD?POST?

Last edited by 0HighTimes0; Wed Feb 08, 2012 at 01:35 AM..
 
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Wed Feb 08, 2012, 01:03 AM
(#11)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
*** merged holdemace's thread with the one that was being replied to JWK24***


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Feb 08, 2012, 09:42 AM
(#12)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
I just started playing live $1/2 cash at the casino recently. In less than 30 hours of playing I've been dealt pocket KK vs AA twice, QQ vs AA, and my AA vs shortstack all-in preflop J9o lost. Oh, and my first KK vs AA, I rivered the two outer K for the win..... and my QQ vs AA we went all-in on the flop and my Q hit the turn. Wierd huh? Must be rigged too!

If anything, online shuffling is more accurately randomized.
 
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Wed Feb 08, 2012, 04:24 PM
(#13)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
When the old hedgehog came online, the cry centered around the monster hands that always lost to trashy cards. I too joined that conspiracy group. However, unlike those who mouth off, I decided to prove PokerStars cheated its customers.

For six months I compiled data on the group one and group two hands. I knew the statistics would verify what everyone believed. Surprise. It proved the exact opposite. My numbers came close to the norm for both distribution and winning percentages. Now I'm convinced of the very opposite. PokerStars computer program is as random as possible.

The reason we think the system rigged is twofold. The first is the inability to actually see the computer shuffle. That makes us suspicious. Be honest, would you patronize a casino where the dealer mixed the cards out of your sight? Unfortunately, there is no possible way of showing a computer shuffling.

Next reason is human nature. We all remember the bad beats laid down on us. We can recall the suckout when we had the made hand. Just as an experiment, can you remember the last time your pocket aces lost? I'm guessing you'll remember every detail, such as number of players calling, how much you wagered, the community, and when your hand went down the crapper. Now reverse the question. Most players cannot recall any details about the pocket aces that won since it is the result they anticipated.

Let me now propose a simple experiment. Take a piece of paper and divide it into three columns. Label the first one "winning on turn - lost on river" and the other column "losing on turn - won on river. Keep track of how many hands you played in the tourney or ring sessions in the third column. When you surpass 10K hands, add up the first two columns. I'll bet your numbers are reasonably close and are a small percentage of the hands you played.
 
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I know exactly how u feel - Thu Feb 09, 2012, 03:10 PM
(#14)
brazman88's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1
I have came to a similar understanding of the RNG but agree that the result of all the suckouts are due to the players irational decisions rather than the RNG.. its the sheer volume of hands played and hands sucked out that the good out weighs the bad and thats why decision has favoured this way
 
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r n g - Fri Feb 10, 2012, 09:10 AM
(#15)
marjoryaaa's Avatar
Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 65
just wondering with the rng. Does the rng pick the cards at the time their being dealt or is it from then 52! decks available?
 
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Fri Feb 10, 2012, 06:32 PM
(#16)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by marjoryaaa View Post
just wondering with the rng. Does the rng pick the cards at the time their being dealt or is it from then 52! decks available?

The deck is...

First: Shuffled

Second: Set

Third: Dealt

Once the deck is set it's set,period. The order of the cards does NOT change. Not whether you use your keys to instigate an action instead of your mouse,or wait 5 or 10 seconds to act,or whatever other"tips" you may have heard.
 
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RNG - Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:30 PM
(#17)
marjoryaaa's Avatar
Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 65
Thanks moxie,
 
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Sat Feb 18, 2012, 10:13 AM
(#18)
BandShooter's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepsipanda16 View Post
The reason i posted this is hands where I have AK flop come K 10 7 i bet get raised by someone with 20k chips i have 20k chips at like 200/400 blinds so he is no where commited i shovwe and he snap calls with A10 and rivers the 10 i know in this situation on the flop i am an 85% favorite. I had played 12 tourneys yesterda yand busted 4 this way to a snap call from someone that made a play and doesnt need to call or commited but does anyway and get there. that was my issue i know AK to 89 is only a 60% favorite its just frustrating
Ok, I realize this wasn't the reason for the OP, but here's a suggestion:

Why are you over shoving here? I don't know what level you're playing at, but at any level over valuing Top top is a losing play in the long run. I realize you are comparing AK to A10, but this is being resaults oriented, whcih is a mistake in poker.

(also, there would need to be more specifics for this analysis but, I'll go with what I got here.)

You have AK (we'll assume off suite) You raise (let's assume a 3BB raise here to $1200. Villan Calls. The pot is now $3000 (assuming neither of you were the blinds and no one else was involved.)

The board comes giving you Top pair with Top kicker. A very good hand, but not unbeatable. You bet out out (Let's guess 50%) $1500. The villan here, either making a play, not giving you credit or just being a bad player, raises you another $1500. The pot is now at $7500

So right here, what are you putting your Opponent on? Unless you're psychic, I don't read this as ABSOLUTELY a weaker hand. In his range are any where from weaker pairs (QQ, JJ, 99.) a stronger Pair (AA, though probably would have reraised you preflop) 10's and 77's are definately in his range, as well as KK (but again, may have Reraised pre, plus you have the blockers for both the AA and KK.) But he also could be holding 2 pair here with K10, or less likely K7, or even less likely 10 7.

Either way, a shove here is WAY too strong, and for 2 reasons. One, you could very easily be beat, and second, since the play is SO strong, the opponent may see it as weakness....which I believe is the case in your situation. If you just call his reraise, and then bet out on the turned blank, I think you're seeing a fold there from the villan, and you win a big pot.

This is just an opinion, but hopefully it will get you thinking more about why the HAND lead you into a bad beat, rather than the Randomness of the cards.

L8r,
 
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Sat Feb 18, 2012, 12:37 PM
(#19)
Django66's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
The deck is...

First: Shuffled

Second: Set

Third: Dealt

Once the deck is set it's set,period. The order of the cards does NOT change. .

are you sure about this?

i wonder everytime i play stud, basically, if true, i can see what i would have got after folding because the guy to my left gets the card i would have got?
 
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Sat Feb 18, 2012, 01:53 PM
(#20)
mcrissinger's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,650
BronzeStar
For games that can deal out more than 52 cards, the discards will be re-shuffled and dealt when needed, but other than that the deck is set after the first shuffle. A dealer message will pop up saying "deck is being re-shuffled."

I've discarded in 2-7 triple draw before and gotten the exact same card back. That = argh.
 

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