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Spr & roi?

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Spr & roi? - Thu Feb 09, 2012, 11:13 AM
(#1)
becar1989's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 19
Hy!

Can anyone explain me this terms? What this mean, please give me some examples? In No-limit cash games, when I'm pot commited?

Thanks!
 
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Thu Feb 09, 2012, 01:24 PM
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JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by becar1989 View Post
Hy!

Can anyone explain me this terms? What this mean, please give me some examples? In No-limit cash games, when I'm pot commited?

Thanks!
Hi Becar:

FIRST QUESTION:

SPR in a cash game is "stack to pot ratio".

This number is derived by comparing the pre flop pot size (after the action completes, but before cards a flopped) to the stacks remaining in the hand.

As the LOWEST STACK remaining in the hand determines the maximum potential loss in a heads up pot, it is the "effective stack", and the SPR is determined by comparing the pot to the effective stack.

Example:

YOU = $5.45
VILLAIN = $6.75

POT = $2.25 Before the flop.

"Effective Stack" = Your's, at $5.45 / $2.25 = 2.4 SPR

See?

You tend to use SPR as a concept most often to set yourself up with beneficial situations for you to commit to a pot by getting your chips all in at some point in the hand, either via a push by you, or by calling a push by an opponent. The LOWER the SPR is going to the flop, the earlier you will need to make a commitment decision.

Obviously, many playable hands will NOT be the sorts of hands you will flop enough value to make you WANT to get all your chips in immediately. This means SPR as a concept also helps you to identify spots where your lesser holdings may or may not be worthwhile to take to the flop.

In large part, you should work your actions to configure an SPR that creates a BENEFICIAL SPR for the type of flop you'd most often expect to see as "good" for your pre flop holding. By working to create beneficial SPR situations for the types of hands you are likeliest to flop with your holding, you tend to create easier post flop decisions for yourself OR keep yourself at a smaller investment level to possibly derive better pot odds/implied odds for your speculative hands.

In order to begin creating those easier post flop decisions, you must be aware of what types of hands tend to play well in certain SPR situations:

HIGH SPR's, those 17+, are "deep money" spots, and you will have to play post flop poker (if you stay to see the flop) in these sorts of situations pretty much no matter what.

Hands which tend to play well in High SPR situations are those that may flop:

- Sets (small/medium pp)
- Strong, 2 way, drawing hands (like JTs/QJs that may flop, possible 15 outs draws)
- Big flushes (A, and sometimes K high flushes).


These are the hands that are almost guaranteed to win you the pot if you flop them.

If the SPR is high, you want be be sure that you have the nuts (or nearly so), or a draw to pretty much the nuts, if there is a lot of action. The last thing you want to do in high SPR situations is get a lot of money in to the pot without a very good chance of winning.

High SPR situations are usually created only in pots that are raised small and called, or are multi-way fields that are limped, and when all stacks in the hand are pretty large. Because of the depth of money of High SPR situations, and the relative "cheapness" of continuing, many speculative hands tend to become playable, but you will have to work assiduously to control your overall investment in the pot.

If all you see from a flop with a speculative holding is an 8 or 9 out draw, but you see someone move all in, you cannot take the risk of calling; you will simply not get odds. You will not see early all in moves very often on High SPR's going to the flop though, so the depth of money can easily create good odds situations (pot odds and/or implied odds) for your drawing hands. Whether you are receiving good odds to continue on a draw will require you to use other poker skills though.

MEDIUM SPR's, those between about 7 and 16, are situations where you are still likely to have to feed money into the pot across multiple streets (if you flop strongly), so post flop skills will still be quite important., and speculative hands are still somewhat playable.

Hands which tend to play well in Medium SPR situations are those that may flop:

- Top 2 pair
- Sets (small/medium pp)
- Good drawing hands (like nut flush/1 or 2 overs, or a gut shot top straight + flush draw, 12+ "clean" out draws)
- flushes and straights.


These are hands that are still quite likely to win if you flop them, but they are not quite as strong as those needed in High SPR situations to continue in the face of a lot of action. The slightly greater pre flop investment you made, and/or the larger pot created pre flop, has served to slightly LOWER the hand strength you need to be willing to commit on the flop; please note though, the hands you can commit on early in Medium SPR situations are still quite strong.

Medium SPR's can still see profitability in playing speculative hands like small pocket pairs and suited connectors that infrequently hit big flops, as there a lot more of money to potentially be won from the hand on later betting rounds, but strong early street bets may price you off these types of hands earlier than in High SPR situations.

LOW SPR's, those between 0 to 6, are the situations where you really will see early commitment decisions quite often. Your decision to play for stacks will usually be made on the flop, as calling a typical bet (or making one) in a Low SPR going to the flop will quite often commit you for the remainder of the effective stack even if that stack does not get all in until the turn.

Hands which tend to play well in Low SPR situations are those that may flop:

- Over pairs to the board
- Top pair (kicker strength is, of course, very important)
- Bottom 2 pair


(If we happen to flop BETTER than these hands, of course we will commit on those too. But Low SPR's do not favor playing hands like QJ/JT or 55/66, so our chances of flopping bigger are far less.)

These are the sorts of hands that we do not want to play multiple streets with, as that will tend to give draws a chance to hit on us. Obviously, speculative hands become far less playable on Low SPR's, simply because we will not have enough money available to win to make them so, and we will also not get to see the river very often.

Low SPRs reduce the number of decisions we need to make with these much weaker flop hands, and we should try to create low SPRs if we hold the types of hands that will tend to flop over pairs or top pairs (AK/AQ, pp JJ+), but then have quite little chance of improving. By doing that, we make our flop decisions a lot easier.

Please note, you will NOT always be able to create the "ideal" SPR for the type of hand you have. But you CAN use SPR as a tool to avoid entering a pot at all if the situation is not favorable for you to do so. You also will see a lot of situations where you can create a good SPR, and by doing that you will tend to make all your post flop decisions MUCH easier, since you can enter each and every hand with a "plan" for what you need to see to keep going.

SECOND QUESTION:

In simplest terms for cash game play, you are "pot committed" when the pot odds for the remainder of your stack are greater than your odds of winning the hand.

Example:

You hold the nut flush draw on the turn, and this will be the nuts if you make it (unless the board pairs of course).
You have $1 remaining in your stack.
There is $10 in the pot.
Your opponent puts you all in.

You have about a 20% chance of hitting your river flush (~4 to 1 against).
You will be paying $1 for a chance to win $11, getting 11 to 1 to call off the remainder of your stack.

You are "committed" to calling your last $1 for the chance to win a profit.

You see Becar, Pot Commitment in cash game play differs greatly from pot commitment in tournament play because in cash games your only concern is your "equity" derived from putting the rest of your chips in.

In a tournament, the escalating nature of blinds means that once you've put about 1/3rd your stack into the pot, a fold when there is ANY chance you might suck out will quite often be more damaging to your chances of making profit from the tournament than making a call for the rest of your stack would be.

(of course it is far better not to get yourself that deep without a real shot at winning in the first place! ).

This is NEVER the case in a cash game...

In a cash game, the money you do not LOSE, is precisely equal in spending power to the money that you WIN, so even putting half your chips into the pot then folding in a cash game is perfectly reasonable if you simply do not have the equity to call off the remainder of your stack. Of course again, it is usually far better to NOT put half your stack in without a real shot at winning if you must put the rest in too .

In the above example, we can determine our "equity" by calculating the following:

1 time in 5 we will make our flush and win.
4 times in 5 will will not make our flush, and lose.

The 1 time we win, we will get $11.
The 4 times we lose will cost us $1 each time, so we lose $4 for every $11 win we expect to make.

Our net expected "profit" across 5 of these situations would be +$7.

$7 / 5 times taking the risk = +$1.40 "expected value" from a call.

See?

You should note that the DEEPER you get into your stack, and the less money a final "crying call" will cost in relation to the pot that could be won, the less chance you will need to win to feel "committed" to calling the rest of your stack. But in cash game, regardless of how much you have already put into the pot, you should NEVER feel "committed" to call the rest of your stack off if pot odds you are being given do not exceed your chance of holding the best hand or making the best hand on the river.

Hope it helps.

-JDean


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Thu Feb 09, 2012, 03:12 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi becar1989!

ROI is return on investment. To calculate an ROI, the following equation is used.

(winnings - buy in) / buy in

ex: say you played 10 ($1.10 tourneys or bought in for $1.10 each into a ring game) and had a return of $15.25 from them.
(15.25 - 11) / 11 = .386 = 38.6% ROI

Hope this helps.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Feb 10, 2012, 09:32 AM
(#4)
becar1989's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 19
Thank JDean it was really educational. It seems to me that more is helpful in tournament plays then in cash game. In cash game with I can use it to cut my losses,especially play against big stack. Now I see why is recomended playing with max buy in at the table.
 

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