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5nl 6max QQ Was my line wrong?

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5nl 6max QQ Was my line wrong? - Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:13 AM
(#1)
Nashy1996's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 164
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner






Hi everyone,

Just another one of those big pair hands that can be a little tricky at times,well at least for me
This was actually the first hand my opponent had played at the table so i had no info at all on him,but i did play with him for a bit longer and his stats were around vpip 20 pfr 20 so a tag type i think.
Personally i'm not too unhappy with my preflop play he was 200bbs deep i had over 100bb so i didn't want to over play it like i have at times in some other preflop spots i've posted.
Going on spr i could have gotton it allin post flop but felt like if his hand doesn't fit that flop texture i'm probably beat with AA-KK anyway so i decided to call and see what developed on the turn in case he was cbetting AK and with position maybe i could take it away on the turn, then obviously the turn card is pretty ugly and he continued confidently so i chose to fold.

So i guess i have 3 questions,what do you think of my line overall? should i have shoved on the flop? and am i too commited on the turn to fold?
Thanks Guys
 
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Fri Feb 10, 2012, 09:51 AM
(#2)
becar1989's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 19
Hy! Not a expert but from my previos experience its a solid play. Many hands could beaten you and i think that you save some good money. That kind of player nows often bet and reraise you even they dont hold a premiumu hand. With that big stack in given situation he act like a bully. From my point of wiew QQ and AK quite often end like a suckout.
 
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Fri Feb 10, 2012, 10:29 AM
(#3)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
I think the key decision you made was to call his 4bet. What is your plan going to the flop at that point? To hit a set? Personally, I would prefer either folding or 5betting with QQ against a random opponent in that spot. Usually a fold. He is basically telling you he has KK+, AK. Better to be a little cautious against new players until you get a solid read of their playing style.

If you had played with him previously and knew he 4bet with hands worse than QQ a 5bet shove may have been the better play.

On the flop the only hand you beat besides AK is JJ and the turn ruins that for you. It also gives any AK with a diamond a lot more outs going to river. Definitely a good fold on the turn.

Last edited by RockerguyAA; Fri Feb 10, 2012 at 10:31 AM..
 
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Fri Feb 10, 2012, 11:49 AM
(#4)
PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
(Live Trainer)
Rockerguy's analysis is pretty on spot imo.

My decision making process in those kind of spots goes sth. like this:

If I expect my opponent to open a range that I am ahead of AND flat/4bet worse hands from that range I would always 3bet and be willing to get stacks in for 100bb effectively. Otherwise, I would flatcall preflop and take it from there. That way I am still in position and make sure that his range includes all those hands that you got crushed.

Flatting a 4bet does not look too appealing to me due to the lack of reads and infos on villain's postflop tendencies. Although you are in position there will still be a lot of tough spots to get into like this one. I could imagine flatting as a trap but again when we cant expect the villain to be bluffing/betting worse here I think your fold on the turn is ok.


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Last edited by PSO-xflixx; Fri Feb 10, 2012 at 11:52 AM..
 
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Fri Feb 10, 2012, 12:11 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post
I think the key decision you made was to call his 4bet. What is your plan going to the flop at that point? To hit a set? Personally, I would prefer either folding or 5betting with QQ against a random opponent in that spot. Usually a fold. He is basically telling you he has KK+, AK. Better to be a little cautious against new players until you get a solid read of their playing style.

If you had played with him previously and knew he 4bet with hands worse than QQ a 5bet shove may have been the better play.

On the flop the only hand you beat besides AK is JJ and the turn ruins that for you. It also gives any AK with a diamond a lot more outs going to river. Definitely a good fold on the turn.
^^This. It's important to have a plan for your hand preflop, and flatting his 4b without a plan is no good because unless you flop a Q you get lost in a big pot and don't know what to do.

When we 3B we should have a clear idea what we'll do and why if we get 4b. If we don't know what to do, it's ok to just flat preflop in position rather than 3b, keep his range wide and play post flop with the positional advantage and post flop leverage on 105 bb's effective.

I think the fold on the turn is good, we're really only beating a bluff and I would assume an unknown showing this much strength at micros is not bluffing. The fact that we put half our stack in and then folded an overpair to the board is not good, but if we're very likely crushed we have to do it. The problem is not the turn play however, the problem is earlier in the hand, specifically flatting the 4B preflop without a plan for our hand.

Dave


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Fri Feb 10, 2012, 12:13 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Oops Felix beat me to it.


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