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Would you call?

Would you call? - Thu Feb 16, 2012, 06:32 PM
etipac's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 116
5/10c blinds, cash game.. Reads on Curly Cue Me are tht he calls every flop just with anything, likes to see flops even if he has to call a raise a bit big. Apart from that he plays as a tag.. 14/13

My thought for calling...

Thought someone of them two had KQ but I called because of the pot and I had a redraw to the nuts nearly. He couldn't have JJ or 10 10 as I saw him 3betting with all pairs above 9 unless he was playing it differently.

I believe in that spot if someone has a set against 2players he needs 33% to call but I had 20% max if someone did not have a better set which I believed Zimnly might have 10 to AA but he was a short stack even though in that case would would be on a draw for a fullhouse bigger than mine...
And my fullhouse would stack the ther one.

Would you call or fold in this spot?
Thu Feb 16, 2012, 09:21 PM
rule110's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 147
As played I would have called because you didnt raise the flop. I think I would have snapped it off, but I play bad alot of the time. And I would expect to be shown better sets or the KQ for the nut str quite often. CurlyCueMe's overshove of the small stack's ai turn bet makes no sense to me as being KQ, and I would think he would show me 2pair fairly often,or a slowplayed JJ or TT(unlikely as you said)

So I dont think I'm folding to this action, but I would raise the flop, before the brd gets any scarier then it already is.
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 02:42 AM
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
Hi Etienne,

I have edited this, because my last post struck me as kind of convoluted. Here goes...

- Hate the flop call

- Coordinated flop demands that you raise villain draws that want to see a turn. You want to get the money in while you're ahead if somebody has a queen. If a draw completes and one of the villains has a draw, then the villain beats you (bad outcome).

- You also want to raise to catch hands like top/top and two pair that could easily stack off right now. If a draw completes and one of the villains has a hand like two pair, you won't get any money out of them (another bad outcome).

- You also need the additional information early aggression can give in case your set is beaten on this coordinated flop.

- The best play is to raise the flop in my opinion.

- When you do not raise the flop, you have left both opponents' ranges wide open; all you can really say is either (or both) probably have some value, and Curly McCue probably is on a slightly tighter range than Zimniy.

- As there are enough hands you are ahead of you are probably obligated to call the big jam by Curly.

- The problem with this is if you are behind a straight, you have only about 21.7% chance to win; and losing costs your entire stack. You are far worse off versus a better set.

I think you probably could have afforded to C/R to about $3.45 on the flop here and still fold if Curly McCue showed aggression in the form of play back. By not doing that, you left your set hanging high and dry in hopes it is good enough to win when action exploded on the turn. With only 1 street to come to make a boat, that was a pretty slim chance if it is behind.

I think you could have played this more aggressively and possibly saved yourself a costly river "miss" if you were beat, plus gotten more value in for yourself if you were ahead.

Hope it helps.


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Last edited by JDean; Fri Feb 17, 2012 at 04:18 AM..
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 11:36 AM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi Etienne,

I think the call is fine. I am willing to commit on this flop (and I agree with the others that we should be raising the flop, JDean detailed why nicely). With the turn being a complete blank I'm still willing to commit. The shove from the bigger stack is concerning, but I tend to agree that this is not just straights and bigger sets but also 2 pairs, pair+draws, and maybe hands as weak as AJ. Since we don't really know, and have outs against the straight anyway, I'd get it in here too.


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Sat Feb 18, 2012, 05:33 AM
rule110's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 147
a raise on the flop is nicer too, because if the shorty went ai and the other guy overshoved, then your flop call for all your chips is better because you'll improve to a full house or quads from the flop to the river more often than you would from the turn to the river.

id rather get the money in here on the flop if I can, or raise and, if Im called, get my chips in on the turn should a blank come, because, with that board and the action preflop, your opponents will more often hold 2pair or some combo of pair and drawing hands, than they will hold better sets.

Last edited by rule110; Sat Feb 18, 2012 at 05:35 AM..

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