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Prolonged Downswing

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Prolonged Downswing - Mon Feb 20, 2012, 04:02 PM
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TrustySam's Avatar
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I love this subsection because I find being able to express one's frustration to be therapeutic. Like I guess other people prefer to stick to that 'right decision' line of coping, but personally I prefer to vent

So anyways ... here's two hands that are completely emblematic of my 3 month long downswing. And it's across the board - not winning the majority of flips when it counts, and running under EV when it counts ... sigh ...





Okay, I feel better

Happy Family Day for those of you in Canada celebrating, and Happy President's Day for those of you in the U.S.!!

Last edited by TrustySam; Mon Feb 20, 2012 at 04:10 PM..
 
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Mon Feb 20, 2012, 04:51 PM
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I feel for you!!!!!

I've been on a tilt for a week now. Seems like what ever I do it was the wroung move. I've lost the hand at the river I don't know how many times. Play all the very stroung hands and lose and fold all weak hands and wouldn't you know it, would have won.

I'm just going to keep playing the I know and hope to get back to my winning ways.

Good luck to you and mayby see you at a table.
 
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Mon Feb 20, 2012, 04:57 PM
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Hey Sam!

If venting a bit can help to avoid tilt... go for it (trust me, I do it sometimes too). Those long downswings are not easy to cope with either, as I've had one last multiple months too.

Hope the cards turn for you.

John (JWK24)


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Mon Feb 20, 2012, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dopplerboyf5 View Post
I feel for you!!!!!

I've been on a tilt for a week now. Seems like what ever I do it was the wroung move. I've lost the hand at the river I don't know how many times. Play all the very stroung hands and lose and fold all weak hands and wouldn't you know it, would have won.

I'm just going to keep playing the I know and hope to get back to my winning ways.

Good luck to you and mayby see you at a table.
Hi dopplerboyf5!

Welcome to the forum.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner



Last edited by JWK24; Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 06:28 PM..
 
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Mon Feb 20, 2012, 06:39 PM
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Okay, yeah - thx doppler, jwk ... my luck is still horrible, but I feel better now

I guess I just wanted to hear that it's happening/happened to others

Welcome doppler ... nice going with the Open League there - wouldn't that be great if your run-good is all being stored up for the end of the month!!

 
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Mon Feb 20, 2012, 08:50 PM
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wetmoose 613's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
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hey sam we ve all been there . it will get better then worse then better then worse . as long as the better gets better and the worse doesn t get worst we are good.
gl y all
 
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Mon Feb 20, 2012, 08:56 PM
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Thx wetmoose

 
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Tue Feb 21, 2012, 01:11 AM
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joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
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The toughest thing about a downswing is not letting it change the way you play. You need a strong belief that you are playing correctly, and above all do NOT change the way you play.

If you need to adjust your game, do it while you're on the upswing, it's much less damaging that way. Seriously, tho, Sam, you just need to focus on making the right decisions, after that, it's just the luck of the draw.

 
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Tue Feb 21, 2012, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joy7108 View Post
The toughest thing about a downswing is not letting it change the way you play. You need a strong belief that you are playing correctly, and above all do NOT change the way you play.

If you need to adjust your game, do it while you're on the upswing, it's much less damaging that way. Seriously, tho, Sam, you just need to focus on making the right decisions, after that, it's just the luck of the draw.

I didn't think you'd come in here, since you seem so bothered by bad beats

I think some of us like to just vent and it doesn't mean we're tilted or changing our game or thinking we haven't made good decisions. Like there's always opportunities to grow, and so everybody should always be reviewing hands and looking for opportunities to grow I think ...

Sam


Last edited by TrustySam; Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 01:46 AM..
 
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Tue Feb 21, 2012, 07:17 AM
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Posts: 1,760
Good venting sam, anything to take your mind of the game for a while I find works. good luck hope it improves for you.
 
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Tue Feb 21, 2012, 01:45 PM
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Hi Holdemace

I know you and Joy have had some words in the past with regards to how best to handle bad beats, so maybe there's some unspoken philosophical differences that might be interesting to explore ... like, what's the optimal way of dealing with variance sort of a deal - is there only one way, or might it depend on the person, or might it depend on the downswing and how long and how severe?

I guess my philosophy is that trying to learn to deal with variance is something that comes along with learning poker, along with money management. Like maybe 'learning to play poker' might really involve:

1. Learning the technical aspects of the game,
2. Learning bankroll management/profitability, and
3. Learning to handle variance and best handle tilt?

And so those three areas might perhaps be areas where there's always room for growth?

I don't know ... I just know that in life I've found it works best for me to find a constructive way to handle negative emotions. Like on the one hand I guess I've found that it's oftentimes futile to try and 'will' feelings you don't think are 'appropriate' away, because they'll have a habit of coming out anyways, and sometimes it'll be in a less than productive fashion? And on the other hand I guess I've found that sometimes if you aren't careful about limiting the self-pity etc there's always a danger of winding up in a rut, and so it's important to try and find lessons to be learned as we go maybe?

Like I guess maybe I'm trying to find the right balance with poker ... as in life (lol )?

It can be tricky, eh? Easy to start 'tilting' too much in one direction, or overcompensate and stuff I guess? Work in progress for us all I think ... I don't know

Hope everything's going well at the tables for everybody!!
 
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Tue Feb 21, 2012, 02:01 PM
(#12)
Acombfosho's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 56
First hand you overplayed, you have about 40bb theres no need to get all the money in with a hand that is at best a coin flip and most of the time crushed by a range of 66+.

Second one, is better for you than a flip you're a decent favorite to win about 75%+ of the time, but he has to call here as you are so short and likely to ship a wide range with 12bb.

I feel for you on the downswing tho bro! Keep your head up

Last edited by Acombfosho; Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 02:08 PM..
 
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Tue Feb 21, 2012, 02:43 PM
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TrustySam's Avatar
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Thx!! And welcome, welcome!!

I don't know how to handle people that keep shoving every hand. I guess they just wore me down, and I figured 55 ought to be decent against their range.

Although now that you mention it, maybe if I had been more aware, I'd have noticed that I had plenty of time and chips to wait for an even better hand to make a call with.

That's a great point - thx for pointing that out

Usually I try to wait to have like 4/5 the chips before I'll call an all-in from the other person ... not sure how I managed to forget that

Last edited by TrustySam; Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 03:13 PM.. Reason: oops
 
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Tue Feb 21, 2012, 02:47 PM
(#14)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
welcome acomb always nice to see new posters
 
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Tue Feb 21, 2012, 02:55 PM
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Hi Acombfosho!

Welcome to the forum. Here's a link that will help to get you started taking advantage of everything that PSO has to offer.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Feb 21, 2012, 03:14 PM
(#16)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Hi Sam, what do I personally think about variance, i could write
some of the strangest theories ever heard lol. However the best
optimal way of dealing with variance as to be to play less.
Less in poker is more, concentration levels are at the highest,
and so on.
Too easy to loose a game then jump straight into another one,
still steaming about the last beat.
I learnt to run before I could walk in poker. Knowing how to play
textbook poker before I even knew what everything meant.
Like a mechanic who can fix a car but does not know what an exhaust is,
to that mechanic its just a pipe,he knows where to put that pipe, but
does not know the purpose of the pipe.
Downswing this can be easily resolved,stop trying to win and try to
stay even. Freerolls etc,play them all,find the patience.
Drop your buyins or amount of tables you are playing.
You do not need to try will those feelings away just try to change
them feelings. Once you take the fun factor out of life,especially
in poker,its game up. Chasing all the time something you never had,
making yourself hate yourself because you know your better than that.
Bad habits become a part of downswings,constantly making the same
mistake over and over again.
Or trying to look for answers to something that was never broke.
I'm not sure if you will understand what I am saying to you as
half the time I'm not sure,but the truth is talking to others,
is always a good start in any situation.
 
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Tue Feb 21, 2012, 08:47 PM
(#17)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Why, that's not weird at all

I've read a lot of your posts holdemace, but I feel like this is the first time I've really stopped to listen ... like really hear you ...

WOW!!

Your style of writing's kind of 'stream of consciousness' and a little more poetic and profound, but it sounds like you were saying:


1. On the subject of VARIANCE: less is more, slow and steady wins the race

- that it's just so easy to fall into the trap of busting out of a game in a bad way, and then making the mistake of firing up a new one ... while still steaming and tilted
- but concentration is so important, that taking a break to get that back is so key

- also, who was it that said poker can take a day to learn and a lifetime to master? (your parable of the mechanic and the pipe)


2. On the subject of DOWNSWINGS: life is about enjoying the moment

- there's that common temptation of sometimes wanting to try and force a win during a losing streak, which will tend to make things worse rather than better
- just need to try and continue to patient
- and drop down a level if possible

And then this is where you reall hit your stride:

Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
Once you take the fun factor out of life,
especially in poker,
it's game up.

Chasing all the time something you never had,

making yourself hate yourself because you know your better than that.
And then there was this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
Bad habits become a part of downswings,
constantly making the same mistake over and over again.

Or trying to look for answers to something that was never broke.
And this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
the truth is talking to others,
is always a good start in any situation.
Some nice practical tips, and some astute insight there holdem!!

Last edited by TrustySam; Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 08:49 PM..
 
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Wed Feb 22, 2012, 04:29 PM
(#18)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Thanks sam, and shocked with the breakdown, but yes more or less.
 

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