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5nl 6max QQ- 2 follow SPR or not 2 follow SPR

5nl 6max QQ- 2 follow SPR or not 2 follow SPR - Tue Feb 21, 2012, 06:14 AM
Nashy1996's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 164
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

Hi everyone,

my opponent was new to the table he'd played maybe 10 hands with stats of 33/33 thats mainly why i flatted in position with QQ preflop not knowing my opponents tendancies.i set up a good SPR(about 4.3) and i felt comfortable playing my hand postflop in position.

He then proceded to lead out on every street and i called him down with my over pair,on the river i have to say i felt like i was beat, i just didnt know against an unknown player what hand i could beat after he shows this much strength.But i experienced inner conflict as to fold on the end or follow the standard SPR process with my over pair and i decided to do the latter.

What do you guys think the best choice would be in this spot,i mean the board isn't that sick so the SPR choice isn't usually difficult, but i just felt really conflicted in this pot
thanks guys i could do with some help maybe i'm just making a big deal out of nothing.
Tue Feb 21, 2012, 06:59 AM
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Hi with not having much info on the opponent this is a tricky hand to evaluate.
Lets presume the opp is a bit loose
AJ,AT, maybe in his preflop raising range and maybe 44,

Maybe a preflop reraise would of give you more of an idea into the opps hand.

Also you could not rule out pp aces or kings or jacks.

the flop

you ony flat called, this allows the opp to think he /she maybe ahead.

and like wise on the turn.

Tough decission, the opp either had fresh air or had you crushed, these type situations I would personally choose to fold with not having much info on the opp. Wait for a better spot to crush them.

Just my thoughts on it.
Tue Feb 21, 2012, 10:15 AM
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
Hi Nashy.

The idea behind setting up a benfecial SPR going to the flop is to try to AVOID playing hands like over pairs all the way to the river passively in the face of minimal info. Growing the pot, and lowering the SPR, tends to make it easier to get opponents all in SOONER, thus "protecting" the value of an over pair better. By their very nature, over pairs tend to be vulnerable to suck outs (since they tend to improve so seldomly), but they are usually strong enough to play all in when the pot is large and it is more likely that top pair and/or somewhat weak drawing hands might call.

In this spot, I think I would have prefered, vs a 33/33 player (even though it is only 10 hands), to either raise with the intent to get all the chips in pre, or flat with the intent to get them in on the flop (if I hold an over pair). I'd tend to prefer the 4bet pre to be honest, given that we have no info though.

I mean if you think about it, if this guy is raising 33% of every hand he gets, is he REALLY going to wake up with AA/KK a lot here?

In my opinion, playing QQ passively, and trying to get it all the way to the river on a call/call line is really NOT following the thoughts behind SPR in "planning" your hands around commitment given that you only have 10 hands or so on the opp. You've built the pot early, you lack info on what MIGHT come to beat you, so you really should try to take it down early or charge a maximum price to let the opp try to run you down.

Hope it helps.


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Last edited by JDean; Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 11:37 AM..
Tue Feb 21, 2012, 10:17 AM
PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
(Live Trainer)
Hi Nashy,

this is the kind of spot that I usually would try to avoid lacking any reads or info on the opponent by 4betting or folding preflop. Calling down, raising flop, folding in between are all options but you will never really have a feel for whats best against this particular villain because you dont know his ranges, tendencies and frequencies.

As a default play 100bb deep in 6-max against an unknown villain I am willing to play for stacks with QQ and therefore I would 4bet for value preflop.

If you are taking the passive calldown line you are essentially paying off TT/JJ/diamonds in addition to KK/AA while hoping that he triple barrels with AJ or bluffs (AK/AQ/KQ).

- Felix

Live Trainer

Tue Feb 21, 2012, 01:30 PM
becar1989's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 19
On this spot and knowing that my opp plays 1/3 of his hand I surely get 3bet that raise. If he call then probably have AK or some small pair,maybe Ax. With that flop I will definetly reraise him and see where I am.
Tue Feb 21, 2012, 02:22 PM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Hi all,

One note, the stats are meaningless as the sample size is way too small. The villain has played 3 out of 9 hands, it doesn't mean anything yet. Maybe they're a nit who caught 3 hands. Maybe they're a super LAG who's had 6 complete garbage hands. We just don't know yet.

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Tue Feb 21, 2012, 09:58 PM
Nashy1996's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 164
thanks for all the advice guys, it gives me some things to think about! just a question to throw out there if anyone is interested, if i do 4bet pre here and he doesnt play for stacks preflop and flat calls what then? i guess i would be getting the money in on the flop if i have an over pair when the cards come down.And let it go if aces or kings show especially if my opponent bets in front of me.
Wed Feb 22, 2012, 08:29 AM
siberianex's Avatar
Since: May 2010
Posts: 38
I think I agree with Felix in this spot. I 4 bet small with the intent to get the money in.
In 6 max QQ is a monster vs blind 3 bettors most of the time and even though its been only 9 hands the villain did show the tendency to be a LAG, so I am ready to commit vs this type of a player.

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