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pocket Jacks are no fun

pocket Jacks are no fun - Tue Feb 21, 2012, 08:27 AM
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
No specific reads on this opponent, haven't seen him play a hand yet. This is the final table of a 27man

Would it have been better to 3-bet preflop instead of flatcall the minraise?

After his call of my flop-raise, should I just fold the turn, or was it simply a matter of making too small of a raise on the flop?

Would you have called the river here?
Tue Feb 21, 2012, 09:04 AM
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Hi ov3

Preflop - The opp min raise looked like small to mid pair to me
I would of made it 1200 to go, trying to isolate the pot.
Also this would establish if any opps left to act did not have an over pair to the JJ.
If the opp then had flat called your 3x, you could probably rule out aces or kings for
the moment.
I would also think ahead and what you would do if shoved on preflop.

flop-the opp bets 1/3 of the pot roughly,this looks weak.
You then min raise,this also looks weak so your opp calls,
At this stage I am thinking he/she as over pair to the board,
but my JJ is still good.

turn-Q,big danger card as the opp may of had AQ.Again the opp bets,
However is amount screamed out weakness.
And again you flat called looking weak your self.

River-At this stage and the size of the pot there is no way I am folding for 1200
chip bet. May of been value bet,but the hand was played passive by the opp
with weak bets.

Conclusion you may be overthinking your hands,making decissions harder to make. This is just my opinion,
you seem worried to bet out,however with not having complete stats on the opp it is hard to assess.
Tue Feb 21, 2012, 09:33 AM
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
This is precisely why people hate JJ because they play it so poorly. Ov3r you have 35 + bb's and you have a min raise in early pos with little or no reads. First thing is have you looked his stats up and secondly have you checked to see how many games he is playing?
First checking his stats preferably on poker pro labs bc it tells you alot of info like early/mid/late finishes, itm%, roi, game level they play at normally and volume among others.
Second how many games is he playing bc it will tell you if he is a regular player etc. These things are not much but they are better than what you have.
Okay now we have 3 options always...... fold, flat or raise.
Fold - only is he jams pre any other time NEVER
Flat - well by doing this we not only show weakness which sets us up to be taken off our hand but we also give odds to everyone after you to make this call or to squeeze you out.
Raise - 100% of the time. It takes control of the hand and being that you are on the bbl likely to take it down right there. What are we thinking we are doing on each street when we flat here? Then ask the same question if we are to raise. If you are going to bet 1200 on flop why not make it 1200 pre and if he jams over top of you you can decide to either get it in or fold! Either way is much better than limping.
If he is getting cute with QQ+ your 3 bet will pretty much let you know this when he pees his pants and jams it in.

In summary stop playing scared because you always lose with pocket jacks and you are on the bubble. Raise this up to 1900 and put him to the test.

Tue Feb 21, 2012, 10:06 AM
Feskprins's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 450
I would probably go ahead and 3bet preflop for a number of reasons. First off, we're giving him a chance to fold out any inferior and marginal hands, and it's also for value. Secondly, we have position on him and we're taking the initiative which is very important. Thirdly, we're isolating him and at the same time, gathering information about his hand. By just calling, it's going to be tough to know where we stand post-flop. Someone else might call behind us as well, making it even tougher.

Flop is 524rb. BB checks and the preflop raiser fires a pretty smallish bet. I think raising here is fine. He could easily just be cbetting here, hoping to take down the pot cheaply, and we're also charging any straight draws and smaller pairs to continue. I don't know if we should raise more though since we're giving him pretty good odds with this minraise. The button and BB fold, villain calls.

The turn is a very bad card for us. Qx is definitely in his range and he leads into us again. I don't think we should fold here though. It's a very small bet and there's just one overcard to the board. There's always the possibility that he's holding an overpair or flopped a straight or a set, but I think calling here is fine without more specific reads.

The river bet is pretty gross. It polarizes his range a whole lot. I don't think he's holding QQ because he'd probably take a more aggressive line and bet bigger on the river. It looks like 77-TT to me, maybe even AK, although he could be value betting QT+. We're ahead of that range and it's close, but I'd probably call on the river.

Now feel free to bash my terrible ranging. ....
Tue Feb 21, 2012, 12:56 PM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,862
Hi Ov3rsight!

With this being toward the bubble and not having 2 or more stacks much lower than me, I'm looking for a situation to be picking up chips, to get ITM, then top 3, then to win.

JJ.... one of the toughest hands in hold'em to play, as it almost always puts a player in a sticky situation. Reads on the opps would be a large help and since this is the final table, I should have some sort of read on everyone that is left by now.

I'm in agreement with the others, that I'm 3-betting here. JJ, while it's a made hand, I would want to try and thin the field some, which would have less opps drawing to a Q, K, A or lower pocket pair. The more that are involved in the hand, the harder it is to play JJ, especially if out of position. If someone shoves over my 3-bet, then I can make a decision on calling or folding (call if the read I had on the opp was that they were loose, fold to an opp playing very tight).

The flop brings three small cards and the original raiser makes a small bet (35% of the pot). Since I didn't raise preflop, I'm going to raise here both for value and to see where I'm at in the hand and I'm going to make a 3X raise. A min raise with 4 in the pot gives pot odds to too many people that could call with draws, so I'm making it larger. The min raise luckily did get the pot to HU, but really doesn't give us any info about the opp's hand.

The turn is a scare card and the opp makes another small bet. If I'm going to call this bet, then unless the river is another scare card, I'm calling a river bet too. If not, I'm mucking here.

I think this hand can be played better by 3-betting preflop, or a larger raise on the flop. This way I can better define the opp's hand and then make a decision as to whether or not I want to continue with it. If the opp calls my bet, it also gives me the lead in the hand and control over the betting, instead of having to blindly call bets by an opp that I don't know if I'm ahead of or behind.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


6 Time Bracelet Winner


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