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How do you play this post flop?

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How do you play this post flop? - Sun Feb 26, 2012, 02:04 PM
(#1)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Okay Posse just wanted to post a hand for you discuss and see how many different ways we can play this post flop as well as why!
This is a $3.50 9 man and sucre is a 36/4 through 45 hands i have on him although only 20 are from this game as we are at level 2 only. He is a classic calling station. Balckbart is 15/0 thru 20 hands and this is the only game i have seen them in. Sekas is a 5/0 and came along as he got good odds is my guess.
Do you c bet the bricked board out of position? Do we call this small raise. Thoughts please.

PokerStars Hand #76248898011: Tournament #523193843, $3.11+$0.39 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2012/02/26 12:07:16 ET
Table '523193843 1' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: jadi34 (1875 in chips)
Seat 3: sucre52 (915 in chips)
Seat 4: blackbartez (1625 in chips)
Seat 5: M3maniac (1305 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: sekas11 (1405 in chips)
Seat 7: 19honu62 (1435 in chips)
Seat 8: Joekannes (1545 in chips)
Seat 9: u610138 (3395 in chips)
M3maniac: posts small blind 15
sekas11: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 19honu62 [As Kc]
19honu62: raises 60 to 90
Joekannes: folds
u610138: folds
jadi34: folds
sucre52: calls 90
blackbartez: calls 90
M3maniac: folds
sekas11: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [7d 3c Qd]
sekas11: checks
19honu62: checks
sucre52: bets 30
blackbartez: calls 30
sekas11: folds

Giddy Up!
 
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Sun Feb 26, 2012, 02:10 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
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moved to HA since there is a ? about a specific hand JWK24***


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Sun Feb 26, 2012, 02:33 PM
(#3)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Yay for STT hands.

I'd raise preflop the same way, and I imagine there won't be a ton of discussion about that. But it'd be interesting if someone would do something different.

I fully agree with checking ace-high in a four-way pot in lieu of c-betting it, even though you have initiative. I don't think you're getting anywhere near enough folds to make c-bet bluffing into three people profitable.

I'd normally check with the intent to fold, but facing a min-bet and closing the action, I think folding would be a bit silly. You're getting direct odds to draw to a live card for a pair, but it's essential to note here that your cards might not be live. If you do hit, I really think you need to pot-control for the rest of the hand because this is a situation where you can easily improve, but to a second-best hand. If somebody has AQ, KQ, A3, K3 (we've all seen it happen :P), etc., then you're reverse-dominated, and it's important to consider that possibility so you don't lose your whole stack in the early game.

For the same reason I don't like c-betting, I don't like raising the min-bet; I don't think you're getting enough folds to make it profitable.

Facing any sizable action on future streets without a made hand, I'd be inclined to fold. I don't like running bluffs in the early game of an STT, but that's me.

Can't wait for more discussion. Cool hand, Cowboy.

Last edited by PanickyPoker; Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 02:47 PM..
 
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Sun Feb 26, 2012, 07:16 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
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Hi Cowboy!

Preflop, I like the std raise and would make the exact same play. It's always good to make the std raise, to help conceal the strength of my hand.

On the flop, with 3 others in, I like the check here. Someone easily could have a small/mid pocket pair or hit one pair on the flop. All of the opps are playing tight, so they shouldn't be in this pot with a reasonable hand.
With a min bet and a call, this could be from a small/mid pkt pair (which I would still have outs against), but with the opps playing tight, they could have AQ or more specifically KQ, which would have me dominated.

If the opps were loose, I'd tend to lean towards a float in this situation, but with basically all of the players playing tight, since it's early and I have a playable stack, I'll muck and hope the hand goes to showdown so that I can get some info about the opps.

The other option that is available (but wouldn't want to use without a read on the opps) would be to float the 30 chips and then to try and turn AK into a bluff on the miss the turn. Early, without solid reads, I wouldn't make this play.. but if I thought the opps would fold to the turn bluff later in the tourney, I'd be more likely to try this play. The problem with this play though, is that by calling the flop bet to bluff the turn, the opps could put me on two high cards that missed.... and call me down with mid or bottom pair.

Tough spot that can be played a number of ways, but I'm opting to fold here and look for a better sitiation.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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Tue Feb 28, 2012, 09:29 AM
(#5)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
If we do see another card here as we are getting a good price what can we hope to hit that isn't behind as you pointed out! If one of them already has a set and is slowplaying then we will need runner runner to hit a str8 as hitting AA and KK does nothing for us. If we hit and A and they played A rag which is common here we are in trouble. We have no flush possible and even hitting a K puts us in a jackpot they could have KQ.

I posted this hand because it is a spot where i find it is easy to fall in love with AK and even easier to spew chips chasing possibly the worst of it.

 
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Tue Feb 28, 2012, 01:37 PM
(#6)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post

I posted this hand because it is a spot where i find it is easy to fall in love with AK and even easier to spew chips chasing possibly the worst of it.



I'll admit my thoughts are contrarian. My personal experience shows the Ace-King to be a very poor hand post flop. Off suited, it bats below 500, which makes the hand a coin flip. My play would be to check for the flop and drop those cards at the first sign of resistence. You need a runner-runner to make this hand work. Anything paired will turn that hand into so much goo.

Will now await the flames when others tell me how great this hand is. Maybe for you. Hedgehog has a tendency of finding communities where the highest card is a ten whenever I'm holding big slick. My reaction is the opposite or you, Cowboy. It has to be the easiest hand to discard due to its success rate.
 
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Tue Feb 28, 2012, 03:32 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
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Posts: 24,817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
I posted this hand because it is a spot where i find it is easy to fall in love with AK and even easier to spew chips chasing possibly the worst of it.
Absolutely 100% correct cowboy. AK's a hand that can have great potential, but way too many players get married to the hand, especially preflop... and if an A or K don't fall on the board, it's only ace high and they won't learn to fold it.

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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