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$100 Freeroll 98o UTG I'm chipleader

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$100 Freeroll 98o UTG I'm chipleader - Wed Feb 29, 2012, 06:17 PM
(#1)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
$100 Freeroll. 3000 entrants, about 300 left and I'm the chipleader.

BetOnline Poker Game #982596946: Tournament #3738359: Hold'em $150.00/$300.00 - 2012/02/29 14:40:19 PST
Table '3738359-189' 10-Max, Seat #7 is the button
Seat 5: bdlrocks (11997.23 in chips)
Seat 0: oriholic (45960.00 in chips)
Seat 8: Imgoingin (22206.00 in chips) - Small Blind
Seat 2: SUPRFATCAT (23657.21 in chips)
Seat 6: PAPA LOU (5060.96 in chips)
Seat 7: bruizer45 (3544.08 in chips) - The button
Seat 9: JonB45 (7776.34 in chips) - Big Blind
Seat 3: lucky4me84 (24666.32 in chips)
Seat 4: swtbrad444 (90.00 in chips)
Seat 1: sthrnfried (5129.13 in chips)
Imgoingin: posts small blind 300.00
JonB45: posts big blind 600.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to oriholic
oriholic: raises 1200.00 to 1200.00
sthrnfried: folds
SUPRFATCAT: folds
lucky4me84: folds
swtbrad444: folds
bdlrocks: folds
PAPA LOU: folds
bruizer45: folds
Imgoingin: calls 900.00
JonB45: calls 600.00

I decide to raise 98o from UTG as a steal. I haven't been at this table long (and I've been playing tight) and the only hand I've shown down was QQ, for the huge double-up that made me chipleader. I figure I'm unlikely to get 3-bet having raised UTG and having so many chips, and I have an easy postflop situation even if I do get called. The blinds call. This is totally fine. They were getting a good price with pretty much anything, and I have position on them.

*** FLOP ***
Imgoingin: bets 600.00
JonB45: folds
oriholic: ????

The SB donks into me on a dry K-high board and I have no pair, no draw. Not even a backdoor draw other than to like backdoor trips or two pair. What should I do here?


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Wed Feb 29, 2012, 08:45 PM
(#2)
chuckkky's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 913
Hey oriholic,
I have two ways I would play this:
1: Raise to $2,400.00. and give up if he calls.
2: call, wait for him to donk the turn and reraise him 3 x his raise.(If he doesn't bet the turn bet 75% of the pot).
If he calls my turn bet, I just give up.(hopefully he will bet the river so we can fold without showing)
 
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Thu Mar 01, 2012, 02:04 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
(Super-Moderator)
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Hi Ori!

Preflop, is a min-raise your standard raise at this level? If so, then it's fine to use that as a steal amount, but if not, then it can look fishy since it's a different bet than the std.

When the SB makes the min donk bet, there are two ways that I'd go about playing it. If I thought that the opp did have a K and wouldn't fold it, then I'd get out of the hand here.... most likely what I'd do in a freeroll or someone that I didn't have a read on.

However, if I thought that the opp could fold to a bluff, then I'd call the flop bet. Then on the turn, is where I'd make my bluff by either raising the opp's lead bet or by making a bet if they checked to me. By making the bluff on the turn, I would price out a draw with say A4 or A5, where they may be priced IN if I made the bluff on the flop. Also, the turn bluff looks stronger if they have only one pair, they may fold easier.

There are a couple ways to play this, but in a freeroll with lesser competition that may not know much about odds, I'd muck the flop here and get my chips into a better sitation, especially with the SB having a stack that could do damage to mine.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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Thu Mar 01, 2012, 07:30 PM
(#4)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
Results:

*** FLOP *** [Kh 2c 3s]
Imgoingin: bets 600.00
JonB45: folds
oriholic: raises 2000.00 to 2000.00
Imgoingin: folds

I opted to raise as he probably has a weak hand here. Since I was planning on C-betting 2000 that's what I raise it to. It looks large at 3.3x his raise, even in position, but it is only about half the pot. As expected, he folds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckkky View Post
Hey oriholic,
I have two ways I would play this:
1: Raise to $2,400.00. and give up if he calls.
2: call, wait for him to donk the turn and reraise him 3 x his raise.(If he doesn't bet the turn bet 75% of the pot).
If he calls my turn bet, I just give up.(hopefully he will bet the river so we can fold without showing)
I like your thinking chuckkky! At first I was thinking there was only one option, but I think both of yours are good. The big thing here is flop texture. This is a flop that a UTG raiser is expected to C-bet 100% of the time. What am I gonna check back QQ or something silly? It's just so hard for anyone to have anything here. The standard play here is to just raise right here. I have absolutely nothing other than the initiative in a hand where the board is extremely unlikely to have hit the villain. When a weak player donks here they generally have air, a weak hand that may call one bet or fold, or a draw. The only draws are like 45, 46, 56, maybe A4, A5. So I think his range is mostly air. It is very unlikely (and dumb in general without reads) to be leading out with top pair or better on this board where he risks me just folding my weak hands. It would be different if it were the kind of board where I might check behind. The thing is with a dry K-low-low board there is NO good turn card for me. Okay, maybe an ace, but eh, then I have to run a multi-street bluff, which I simply don't think will be profitable in a freeroll. If I had an overcard or a gutshot or any pair or a backdoor flush draw I might be inclined to take one off and see what he does on the turn, but there just aren't any good turn cards for me. If I had a read that he might just min-lead every street I might consider calling (this is a line I have taken in the past), but absent any reads I think the correct play is to just take the pot right now. In some ways I'm betting for protection. I'm protecting my bluff from him backing into a random pair. I also don't want to see him get to showdown with JT.

With more of a read on the guy I like your second line except for one part...Why such a big turn bet??? On such a dry board he is as likely to call a big bet as a small one, and I'd rather keep my bluffs cheap. I think around 40% of the pot is fine here. I generally will bet my value and bluff hands small on this sort of board for balance against better players, but in a tourney against weak players I think betting bigger for value is fine as they're unlikely to pick up on this imbalance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Hi Ori!

Preflop, is a min-raise your standard raise at this level? If so, then it's fine to use that as a steal amount, but if not, then it can look fishy since it's a different bet than the std.
At 300/600 this is my standard raise from any position. I don't think that a larger raise accomplishes anything, and with stacks so shallow there is no real reason for me to adjust my raise size based on position as I would with deeper stacks. Deep, my standard might be something like 2.0x from the button, 2.25x from the CO, 2.5x from the HJ, 3x from the LJ or earlier. Yes, by minraising I am giving the blinds excellent odds to see a flop, but I will have position on the blinds with a hand that will be very easy to play.

Quote:
When the SB makes the min donk bet, there are two ways that I'd go about playing it. If I thought that the opp did have a K and wouldn't fold it, then I'd get out of the hand here.... most likely what I'd do in a freeroll or someone that I didn't have a read on.
Would he really lead with a K? That would be silly as he risks me folding all my air. On this board I'm almost never checking behind. In most cases I think he just check/calls or check/raises, or donks for a real bet (probably pot-sized since that's what all the fish do). If he 3-bets over my raise I obviously have an easy fold but I think that's very unlikely.

Quote:
However, if I thought that the opp could fold to a bluff, then I'd call the flop bet. Then on the turn, is where I'd make my bluff by either raising the opp's lead bet or by making a bet if they checked to me. By making the bluff on the turn, I would price out a draw with say A4 or A5, where they may be priced IN if I made the bluff on the flop. Also, the turn bluff looks stronger if they have only one pair, they may fold easier.
I'm not a big fan of floating with no pair no draw, no backdoors no overcards, AND no real draws to represent. Basically I have to hope he fires multiple barrels and then folds to my raise, with zero chance of actually winning a showdown. (I'm just not crazy enough to call down three streets with 9 high). Also, by just calling the flop I risk him running into a pair/hand he won't fold. I don't have a read that he likes to bluff multiple streets, so I think the flop is the best place to take it away.

Quote:
There are a couple ways to play this, but in a freeroll with lesser competition that may not know much about odds, I'd muck the flop here and get my chips into a better sitation, especially with the SB having a stack that could do damage to mine.
There are players I would take this line against too, but readless I think folding is out of the question.

Quote:
Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)
Thanks! I final-tabled this freeroll and then the site went down for about 20 or 30 minutes. The blinds continued to increase and I came back to see about a 3 BB stack. I came in 7th with this bustout hand, for a cool $3:

Table '3738359-002' 10-Max, Seat #1 is the button
Seat 9: TrueDegen (751708.62 in chips)
Seat 8: MMMMMM (335092.09 in chips)
Seat 7: Doli04 (17720.26 in chips) - Big Blind
Seat 4: lucky4me84 (1471807.25 in chips) - Small Blind
Seat 3: nitefurry (160197.94 in chips)
Seat 1: oriholic (167249.33 in chips) - The button
Seat 0: Swatme (375224.56 in chips)
nitefurry: posts small blind 50000.00
lucky4me84: posts big blind 100000.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to oriholic
Doli04: calls 17720.26
MMMMMM: folds
TrueDegen: folds
Swatme: folds
oriholic: raises 167249.33 to 167249.33 and is all in
nitefurry: folds
lucky4me84: calls 67249.33
Total pot 331337.88
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Doli04 shows
lucky4me84 shows
oriholic shows
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 70881.04
Board
Seat 9: TrueDegen folded before Flop
Seat 8: MMMMMM folded before Flop
Seat 7: Doli04 showed and won (70881.04)
Seat 4: lucky4me84 showed and won (331337.88)
Seat 3: nitefurry folded before Flop
Seat 1: oriholic showed but did not win
Seat 0: Swatme folded before Flop


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