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Easy fold right?

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Easy fold right? - Thu Mar 01, 2012, 09:46 AM
(#1)
DiveAllIn's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 377
Villian playing 41/35 3bet 24 over 69 hands donks bet 3 out of 3 times and had seen him call down with bottom pair for 1/2 his stack previously. Was the fold correct? TY for all feedback.

 
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Thu Mar 01, 2012, 12:06 PM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi Dive,

This is a good spot to reference the Commitment Decisions class. This hand could be used as the OP example there.


Is this a correct fold? Probably. That's not the right question though. It's a pretty gross spot... the bet looks like a value bet with a jack for sure. But this guy is aggro and I think capable of bluffing, and all possible draws have missed. I'm sure he's bluffing some of the time given how aggro he is, but probably not close to often enough to make a call profitable. A better question though is how did we get here in the first place?

We had a high SPR scenario with the stack to pot ratio of 16, is it going to be profitable to play for stacks with 1 pair and an SPR of 16? Probably not unless the villain is amazingly bad. So my commitment plan is going to be to manage the pot and get my hand to showdown in a medium sized pot, while maximizing by inducing more bluffs from an aggressive opponent. In this hand you took actions on both the flop and turn to build the pot rather than keep it under control, and the result was that you set up stacks to go in on the river in a spot where you aren't prepared to play for stacks.

Always try and have a plan for your hand, and if it's not going to be profitable to commit then adjust your line accordingly (here we could have either flatted the flop and probable turn bet, or we could have checked behind on the turn planning to call any reasonable river bet).

Hope this helps,
Dave


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Thu Mar 01, 2012, 12:42 PM
(#3)
DiveAllIn's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 377
yes of course ty
 
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Thu Mar 01, 2012, 01:00 PM
(#4)
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
BronzeStar
make sense dave but i have anotjer question about this one!
if u plan to play for stacks here do we wait for the turn/river card or do we let him pay bigtime for completing his boat or bluff???
 
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Thu Mar 01, 2012, 03:15 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 77wopke77 View Post
make sense dave but i have anotjer question about this one!
if u plan to play for stacks here do we wait for the turn/river card or do we let him pay bigtime for completing his boat or bluff???
Great question! IF we decide it will be profitable to play for stacks then we no longer have a concern about the villain bombing into us or check-raising since this just helps us realize the profit that we already decided is there in playing for stacks. So we can't be confronted with any tough decisions, we actually would welcome the big bet or raise.

So in that case it simply becomes a matter of deciding how to maximize (extract the most long term profit) from the villain (I have also devoted a class to this process called REM). In the case of this particular villain he calls too loose (we've seen him call down with bottom pair already), can be aggro (presumably will do this with decent made hands and some draws), and the board is very wet with cards that hit his playing zone and both straight and flush potential. So I think if we are committing Dive's line is actually very good to build the pot and extract value from his worse made hands and draws.


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Thu Mar 01, 2012, 03:50 PM
(#6)
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
BronzeStar
pfff i've to get in your video's dave!! always when i extract i run into the nuts so i must be doing something wrong

i mean when i slow play or min bet/raise AA i seem to always run into straights and flushes
 
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Thu Mar 08, 2012, 11:57 AM
(#7)
Sjekkkk's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 141
I think your reraise on the flop was too weak
he bets $1,25 on a flop that is likely to be missed but has ALOT of potential draws.

the pot contained $1,60 and you reraise to 3,75 which now makes the pot contain $6,60 and he has to call $2,50.
which is almost 2,65 to 1. Those are good odds if a player looks at two cards to come draws. you should have raised to about $5 (rule of thumb 75% more of the pot raise minimal 4 times his bet, 50 - 75% raise over 5 times his bet) That would have made your decision a lot easier on the river as well.

I think there is a big chance he bluffed you, you are repping an overpair or bluff all the way. the bet on the turn was perfect 66%, and the donk allin (bluff) bet, I would have called that. You also mentioned he was very aggressive and loose. The maniac may turn over a J there but there is a reasonable chance he has the draw. You should ask yourself the question: would this guy not have 3 bet me on the flop with a draw? Those questions you cannot answer with holdem manager stuff.

Last edited by Sjekkkk; Thu Mar 08, 2012 at 12:10 PM..
 
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Thu Mar 08, 2012, 12:13 PM
(#8)
Sjekkkk's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 141
Also you should know how players valuebet,

some players bet really big on the river with strong hands, (more than usual)
 

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