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I Think I played this wrong

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I Think I played this wrong - Sat Mar 03, 2012, 11:26 AM
(#1)
dopplerboyf5's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 149
BronzeStar
We were both playing a bit tight.

Should I have shoved after the flop. When the villian rasied I thought he had 2 pair tops.(aa/??)


Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

Last edited by dopplerboyf5; Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 12:07 PM.. Reason: spelling
 
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Sat Mar 03, 2012, 12:16 PM
(#2)
sydhollow97's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 82
I'm in no means a great player so please don't take my comments as truth or advice. You'll definitely want to hear what Langolier or JWK have to say about this hand. It's definitely a way I would play it so actually I'm very interested in what they will say too. With that said I want to post my 2 cents and see if I'm somewhat right in my thinking as well.

I actually liked the way you played this for a lot of reasons. Just the call preflop is something I like to do in cash games. Disguises the strength of your hand and if he plays pretty tight I think it's likely that with a raise of like 800 you would fold out a lot of what you're ahead of. On the flop the bet of 200 looks like a pocket pair or pair of sixes testing the waters and from his position I think I would also be likely to throw in a raise. After he raises you on the flop, I'm likely to put him on a bluff and I think the only hand that I'm really worried about is pocket 6's or A/6 and I'm going broke anyway. So I think with me putting him on a likely bluff i would also choose the check/raise turn line. A club would be an interesting card though. And then I would find my self in a horrible spot. Maybe just shove preflop and hope he has ace/rag to call you with. Eh, I'm sort of talking myself into a brain aneurysm I think I'll just wait for on of the hand analyzers to reply
 
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Sat Mar 03, 2012, 01:58 PM
(#3)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,284
Put him on your buddy list, he made a horrible call with only a gutshot. I would have played the hand the same way, you were just unlucky here.

 
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Sat Mar 03, 2012, 04:26 PM
(#4)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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Hi dopplerboyf5.

First off, this appears to be an MTT hand, and you've posted it in the Cash Game Hand analysis forum. I will be moving this to the correct forum, ok?

Now...

PRE FLOP:

You state both opponents were playing 'a bit tight". I assume this was the reason you limped along here?

I'm not so sure I'd like the limp-along with 14BB...

With 14BB, I think I'd prefer to just shove all in versus the limper, as the pot is worth about a 24% increase to my stack even if both opp's fold. That is plenty for me to take it down immediately if possible, especially if I get called I am probably no worse than a race (AK/QQ+ would likely raise to open, not limp).

By limping along you run the risk of missing the flop about 2/3rds the time, and being in a very tough spot in how to continue forward in the hand. Even if you do hit the flop, keeping the pot small may make value extraction a tricky proposition for you. All in all, I do not think there is a lot to be said for limping the SB on this stakc size to fit or fold without a lot more info on the opp.

If your stack were larger, say around 25BB or so, I would like the limp-along to fit or fold a lot more than I do on 14BB.

FLOP:

You hit the flop pretty hard, with trip As and 2nd kicker. Only 66, A6, and AK are ahead of you now. In short, you pretty much HAVE to feel you have the best hand most of the time here in my opinion. This means your actions should be designed to get the absolute most from this hand as possible.

Leading out is fine in my opinion, especially if you think your opponent is aggro enough to raise you on less. I must note though that your 200 lead into a 680 pot is laying correct odds for the opponent to peel a card with a flush draw (he needs about 4.1 to 1 to peel the turn to hit, and is getting about 4.4 to 1 to call your bet). In this spot I'd prefer to bet out a bit closer to half pot to deny odds to that draw, and also remain inviting to a flush draw to put chips in for me in a -eV situation.

Again, the pot is a reasonable pick up for you if the villain cannot call on this paired board, and the larger amount I suggest builds the pot for you if you are called.

After you make the small lead bet and get raised, whether or not you move in immediately is really a matter of opponent tendencies. In that spot, you are probably not folding (or you shouldnt be thinking of folding!), but if you think he might be bluffing a lot of the time, or if he will raise on hands like TT/JJ, a flat of his raise may be better; that allows him a chance to bluff at the pot again. If he will have a weaker A here a good bit of the time though, and immediate all in over his raise is fine; he too is probably never folding trips here.

TURN:

I think your turn paly was spot on.

You check in hopes of inducing another bet, and see exactly the bet you wanted. At that point it is super easy to get the rest of your stakc in, and the opp has to call just 970 for a chance to win 5350. He is well and truly "stuck" here and that is exactly what you want.

I'll be hoenst, I am not entirely shocked at all by his call on his gut shot...

This guy over palyed his hand severely, and when he fired his 2nd bullet at you trying to represent the A or a boat, he had little or no choice but to call the river C/R by you. The truth of the matter is that you WANT him feeling that he has to call here, especially when he is drawing at just 4 cards with 1 to come.

Unfortunately, sometimes he will get there...

Overall, you played this hand a bit differently than I would have, but nothing you did here (except perhaps not moving in pre flop on your stack size) is anything I'd term a "mistake". Sometimes luck just happens...

Hope it helps.

-JDean


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Mar 03, 2012, 04:57 PM
(#5)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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**Moved the post to the right forum - JDean**


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Sat Mar 03, 2012, 04:57 PM
(#6)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
double post, self edited. Sorry.


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Mar 03, 2012, 05:07 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,800
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Hi dopplerboyf5!

I agree with JD on this one.

I like the complete here, as not only does it conceal the strength of my hand, but I'm playing the entire hand out of position, so I'd rather be a bit conservative due to it.

On the flop, I would bet more than a min bet, as I would want to price out the flush draw. Due to this, I'd have sized my bet at about 1/2 pot. If the opp raised my larger bet, then I'm definitely calling, if not even 3-bet shoving here, instead of on the turn as I don't want to let the opp see another club hit if they have pocket clubs.

On the turn, since the opp raised the flop, I like the check/shove play here. It gets the opp to put more chips into the pot and commit them to the pot.

Unfortunately, the opp got extremely lucky and hit one of their 4 outs (they had an 8% chance to win).

Keep getting the chips in good and these situations will work their way out in the long run.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat Mar 03, 2012, 09:50 PM
(#8)
dopplerboyf5's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 149
BronzeStar
Thanks guys

Your guidence is very helpful and thank you

After the hand was over I thought about it and I think I was just getting greedy. I thought that if I shoved in after the flop he would fold and in hind sight I should have been happy with the pot . But then greed took over and thinking a set of aces was the bomb.

What can I say but lesson learned. (the hard way)

Once again thanks.
 
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Sat Mar 03, 2012, 10:19 PM
(#9)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Hi dopplerboyf5!

I agree with JD on this one.

I like the complete here, as not only does it conceal the strength of my hand, but I'm playing the entire hand out of position, so I'd rather be a bit conservative due to it.

On the flop, I would bet more than a min bet, as I would want to price out the flush draw. Due to this, I'd have sized my bet at about 1/2 pot. If the opp raised my larger bet, then I'm definitely calling, if not even 3-bet shoving here, instead of on the turn as I don't want to let the opp see another club hit if they have pocket clubs.

On the turn, since the opp raised the flop, I like the check/shove play here. It gets the opp to put more chips into the pot and commit them to the pot.

Unfortunately, the opp got extremely lucky and hit one of their 4 outs (they had an 8% chance to win).

Keep getting the chips in good and these situations will work their way out in the long run.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)
JWK , JD didnt say he liked the limp he actually preferred the jam and I will agree that this has to be a jam. Any hand worth limping is worth raising. We are never raising and then folding just jam pre. If you are trying to induce him to call ( and I don't know why you would be ) then a half stack bet with intent to get it in is fine.

Another thing I will point out is that you do not have 14 bb's because you have to factor in the ante's. This is a common mistake but it is so valuable that you know this as it changes our push / fold range.

Giddy Up!
 
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Sun Mar 04, 2012, 12:01 AM
(#10)
dopplerboyf5's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 149
BronzeStar
check out my lates post again AA lost to a straight again!!!!

Last edited by dopplerboyf5; Sun Mar 04, 2012 at 12:03 AM.. Reason: why not
 
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Sun Mar 04, 2012, 12:39 AM
(#11)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I moved the other thread to the bad beats forum.

Sorry about the losses. It feels pretty bad to keep getting sucked out on, but at least you don't have to worry about your play being too bad. That's what I think whenever I lose to a bad beat to keep myself from tilting.
 
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Sun Mar 04, 2012, 12:48 AM
(#12)
dopplerboyf5's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 149
BronzeStar
don't get me wrong im not upset i know my play is my play. I do not play to make a living (retirement in 20 years mayby) just trying to learn.

you guys are great at helping and I can't thank you enough. must be hard with donks like me
 

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