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5nl 6max QQ-do i change my thinking in the blinds?

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5nl 6max QQ-do i change my thinking in the blinds? - Fri Mar 09, 2012, 05:38 AM
(#1)
Nashy1996's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 164
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner



Hi everyone,

This pot is a pretty simple situation in terms of the action considering we got the money in pre-flop.
My opponent was pretty tight passive i dont have the exact stats but it was around vpip:15 pfr:11 and i checked that he had a steal from the blinds % of 43%.
I just dont see any way i could avoid getting the money in here,i think being blind v blind effects my opponents range to a point where once i 3bet i'm prepared to get the money in v possibly 10+ and AQ hands i'm a big favourite against.
I just wanted to ask you guys even though my opponent has a tight range in conventional spots is it correct to make an acception in blind v blind spots or do i still need to adhere to his tight ranges?
Thanks again
 
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Fri Mar 09, 2012, 06:36 AM
(#2)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
If he doesn't do this with worse, then he doesn't do this with worse. If your read on him says that he is so tight/passive that he'll never get it in with JJ, ever, then I think you've done something wrong. Unless you have that extreme a read, I'd suggest just treating him like a random, and play as you would against someone you just sat down with.
 
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Fri Mar 09, 2012, 07:36 AM
(#3)
Sjekkkk's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 141
I think you shouldn´t look too much to the numbers but rather to his playing style and what he thinks....
in general you made a good decision, but sometimes the opponent has AA or KK

one thing I can tell you:
If you 3bet, you should already know beforehand what you will do if you 4bet. If you think he has you beat, you 3bet and then fold to 4bet. If you think you have a better most of the times you 3bet then 5bet to his 4bet.

If you aren´t sure. just call and see a flop, you have position.

 
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Fri Mar 09, 2012, 11:29 AM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Hi Nashy,

I agree that we should know what we're going to do ahead of time when we 3b, if the 4b comes.

I'm honestly not a big fan of the play here. Now you're right he's opening a wide range, per your stats... the guy normally opens 11% of hands but steal % from the SB is 43% so he's opening almost 4x as often in this spot (or ~ 75% of his opens in this spot do not fit into his standard preflop opening range... that is a ton of steals). But it's a very important distinction that this does not represent his 4b/get it in range. I imagine his 4B range is very tight, since he's pretty nitty in general, and while he's opening a wide steal range initially, he is only stacking off KK+ and maybe sometimes AK (and maybe not even) on this depth of money. He is probably never stacking off JJ pre. Although some players will get stacks in lighter specifically in blind v blind spots because no one ever believes anyone b v b, nits not so much though.

I think I would much prefer to flat call here with a hand like QQ and see a flop in position with the money deeper and his range very wide. This gives us a nice advantage in the hand, puts the nit way outside of his comfort zone (more likely to make mistakes) and doesn't value cut our QQ by folding out all his bluffs preflop.

Dave


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Fri Mar 09, 2012, 09:26 PM
(#5)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
I think I would much prefer to flat call here with a hand like QQ and see a flop in position with the money deeper and his range very wide.
I'm curious how you'd play a board like Axx or KJx on this depth of money. Pot on the flop would be about $3.25 with the money behind totaling $4.57. If the villain c-bets a normal amount, would you tend to fold QQ in a pot this big?
 
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Sat Mar 10, 2012, 02:51 AM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
I think I would much prefer to flat call here with a hand like QQ and see a flop in position with the money deeper and his range very wide.
I'm curious how you'd play a board like Axx or KJx on this depth of money. Pot on the flop would be about $3.25 with the money behind totaling $4.57. If the villain c-bets a normal amount, would you tend to fold QQ in a pot this big?
Hey Gordon,

Sorry, I can see I wasn't clear... when I said I would prefer to flat call and see a flop in position, I meant flat call the initial raise and not 3b at all. In general, 3-betting nits with QQ when we're in position isn't too great, because these are the types of opponents who will fold most of their range that is worse than us, and only continue with the strongest parts of their range which makes QQ a much more marginal proposition. So no, I think it's much better to simply flat call (against this type of opponent) in position with QQ rather than 3b initially... we'll keep the money deep (SPR ~ 20 in this case), have position and be playing against a wide range (a range QQ plays excellent against) in the hands of a villain not used to playing lots of marginal post flop spots to begin with (because he's usually seeing flops with strong ranges). Then on an ace or king high board I would call his c-bet and float him, if he makes a strong 2nd barrel I'm comfortable folding. Yes that could be exploitable but this isn't the player type who will exploit it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'd never 3b this guy... he's way out of line with his steal % and being nitty (risk adverse) at heart this is a spot I'll 3b quite frequently. But I'll do it with ace blocker type hands and more marginal hands that aren't as good to call pre with, maybe stuff down to like 85s (he's a fantastic resteal candidate in this spot). Great resteal candidates it's usually better to flat when we have a strong value hand on deep money, so we're not value cutting our hand by folding out all his steals and only getting action from his strong hands.


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Last edited by TheLangolier; Sat Mar 10, 2012 at 02:55 AM..
 
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Sat Mar 10, 2012, 04:46 AM
(#7)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Cool. That makes sense. Apparently I have trouble comprehending hand analysis when I'm tired.
 

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