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Playing AK to a limp reraise

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Playing AK to a limp reraise - Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:26 PM
(#1)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604


Only have 8 hands with villian and nothing stands out he had rearaised the button in his Big blind and took it without seeing the flop other than that nothing.

So whats my best play here
fold
call
raise
shove it

Thanks in advance

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

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Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:35 PM
(#2)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Gee there was a lot of limping there

I cannot fold AK here, although the reraise looks strong; but why was he limping in the first place?

I smell a pair possibly 10s+ but it could be air as well. I am willing to race and still have a stack that I can work with if I lose.

Probably wrong advice but we will see what the experts say.

What was the game by the way b as that would have some bearing on my decision?

Cheers,

Tony
 
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Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:55 PM
(#3)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Good point Tony I meant to put that in. This was the Big $.40 $15 guaranteed (at this prize pool was about 22k).

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Mar 12, 2012, 06:06 PM
(#4)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Thanks b,

I think I am still shoving and hope the poker gods smile on me

Interesting spot.

Cheers,

Tony
 
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Mon Mar 12, 2012, 06:15 PM
(#5)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Sorry glitch in the matrix again with double posts
 
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Mon Mar 12, 2012, 06:32 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
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HI Grade b!

When everyone limps to me on the button with AK, I'm going to make a standard raise to 350 (3BB+1BB for each limper). The opp then 3-bets me to 1k. Here's where the tourny info comes into play.

If this is a larger mtt (which after reading down, it looks to be so, then I'm just calling their raise to 1k. If I hit the flop, great, if not, I can muck and still have a playable stack. Also, I'm in position, so I get to see the opp act in front of me.

If this was a smaller tourney (STT for example), where I needed to accumulate chips quicker, then I'm more likely to 4-bet shove here. Also, by using good bankroll management, I can just open up another one if I lose.

I'm not folding (unless I know the opp is a total nit that would only play KK+) and I'm not just raising, as a std raise for me would almost put the opp all-in anyway, so if I'm raising, I'm shoving.

Large MTT, I'll call and re-evaluate after the flop.... small MTT, I'll 4-bet shove.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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Tue Mar 13, 2012, 02:34 AM
(#7)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi grade b

I agree with JWK24 in this spot. I noticed a couple of things in the hand that might be worth mentioning though:

1. Stack sizes seem to indicate that you had an above average stack at this point in the tourney. You can call, then fold the flop and still have an average stack. If I were below the average stack size, I'd just 4-bet all in.

2. Reraising to 1000 looks big since you only have 4300 chips behind, but it is not 25% of your stack! You already raised 350. So, it's only costing yo 650 chips (7% of your stack) for a chance at 1575 in the pot. You have great odds to call here. Folding can't be good.

3. Finally, I often see the first person to enter the pot limping with AA hoping to reraise, but not the third person that often. Like topthecat says, you are probably facing a non-premium pocket pair or two face cards.

GL!

Roland GTX
 
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Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:02 AM
(#8)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
sorry didnt read other comments im joining this topic late and im sure you have your answer.

A) do you give him credit for using this play correctly on a narrow range?
b) what is your perceived image and is he good enough to react to you?
c) do you call?


A call here or 4 bet shove is going to do two things. It will give you the flop (in most cases for the 4 bet shove.) and it will establish for you where abouts you are in this hand. i think that you can not lay down this, and a shove is silly so have the above two options. Expect a c bet 100% and if you have any pice of the flop you need to commit to all in in an instant and nothing less. Given a ck by silly and overcard board, and me missing I'm a put it all in to. Good luck.
Hi I'm JIGJIG
the answer to A and B is not enough information only played 8 hands with him.

I was edging towards no for A because with a premium pair i don't think his play is the correct play!
B) over the 8 hands he's been at the table my image is super nit
C) thats what i'm asking you guys about.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:07 AM
(#9)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
ty guys for the analysis,

You can tell i play more STT than MTT i guess as my thought was 4 bet rather than flat.

So i will work on my MTT and conserving chip game, I tend to do better when i play out of the zone I can afford but I'm going to guess you wouldn't recommend it.

Actually this is a big problem for me in MTT's after all i want to get to top 3 not limp along to a min cash. I do see the value in not overplaying my ace high and still having a stack, but will i remember it!!!

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:31 AM
(#10)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
You can take the line,

Discount AA and KK cause mostly morons and superheros are going to be spastic so early then shove, take 5 cards as you are on the 3rd or 5th best starting hand with blockers to AA and KK.
I like this option and happy to race AA and KK is a cooler and is 16 combinations reduced to 9 with your holding.. in addition you will see Aq most of the time or Ak around 19% range in my experience of those who over play, buy in dependant, which you are beating a lot. This is my opinion not solid facts.
Ty sir, but if you are against AQ+ TT+ what do you do in my spot?

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Mar 13, 2012, 02:59 PM
(#11)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
Hi Grade b!

What do you think the limp/3-better's range is? Note he did not open limp. He limped behind the UTG limp! This makes a HUGE difference. We can all but entirely remove AA, KK, QQ from his range as that is too weird a trap to set (limping behind a limper?). So let's think what kind of hands someone would limp behind the UTG limper? Trash, suited connectors, suited aces, unsuited aces, broadways, suited broadways, pocket pairs. (i.e. pretty much anything other than premiums.) What sorts of hands would limp and then reraise? Pocket pairs, possibly some suited connectors, suited aces, even broadway hands, basically hands that play well multi-way but are also likely to be the best hand or have good equity heads-up. How does AK look against that range? AWESOME! Yeah, he might be limping some decent pocket pairs like 99-JJ, but I maintain that QQ+ is pretty close to impossible and your A and K blockers make AA and KK even more unlikely. He also might have some hands like AQ, AJ. You probably run into a medium pocket pair here a lot but there is so much dead money in the pot you're getting a great price to get it in anyway.

So now folding is not an option. But is calling or shoving better?

If we shove we put him to a tough decision. He probably calls us with his entire range (which we're killing), but we do allow him one last chance to fold his weaker aces, and suited connectors.

If we just call, he will have one pot sized bet left and we allow him one last chance to bluff us. This is clearly more risky since we do allow him to see a flop with a hand he might have folded, but if we win we definitely get his entire stack and we still have good equity against his range on any flop.

So, the standard play is to just shove preflop. But if you want to really gamble for a bigger stack, flat call and get it in on any flop. Even if he has a pair, you'll still be getting the right price to call a shove postflop as long as he doesn't hit a set.

I'd probably just take the lower variance option and shove though.


Quote:
Ty sir, but if you are against AQ+ TT+ what do you do in my spot?
You are not against this range.


4 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Mar 13, 2012, 07:35 PM
(#12)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
hey gradeb,

in my experience a limp reraise like this is usually a mid pair.
you can follow SirJWK's advice call then fold or just shove it and gamble. You have AK and that's the 3rd best hand and you have a blocker for A and K so you got 6 outs for any pair your opp might have and you'll get the best chance to hit it if your going to get to look all 5 cards.
for me, I will shove it and gamble at least I'm not at risk and still have a chance to get back in case I lost the flip
 

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