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really need help really want to win - Sun Mar 18, 2012, 09:02 AM
(#1)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Hi all, I have posted a simlar topic before, but obvious I still need help so will repost this topic.

I have a major problem with my game, because all my life i have nether been wealthy, money as really little interest to me, as long as i survive with enough for the food on the table I do not care about money, as i beleive money does not buy happiness.

How does this effect me? . Well the problem is once i chip my BR up I just can not play, I become careless and not bothered as i see loads of play with my BR and then have no goals.
The challenge then as faded away, I then lose and blame everything from the conspirocies to the critics when in fact it is truley me.

I can not help my way of thinking but really want to change it, im looking for some words of wisdom i supose, something to calm me down when I get chipped up.
I suppose i really am scared of success, all my life this is me, you would not beleive the waste of talent i have wasted over the years in one subject to another.

please help, i know you are not head shrinks but this is poker related and the problem that stops me been successfull.

hoping some one as had the same experiences in life and have learnt to overcome this.
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 12:54 PM
(#2)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
you're right, we're not head shrinkers, but will offer you this; when you don't care, your bottom line WILL suffer. the fix? CARE! simple as that. as for how to get there, you're on your own.


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 01:11 PM
(#3)
Deleted user
Well I can tell you in a quick blip that your statement about not caring about money doesnt stand up to any tests. Reason being a person that truely didnt care about money would not be posting about losing it. The other side is that most people get into poker seriously for the money. So it tends to bother me when people state its not about the money.

What you should be saying is you lack self control. This is not a put down as it is lacking in most of us when it comes to poker. Try folding in spots you tend to call to often and loose.
Here are some examples of what I mean:

- Raise 3xbb with Akos and miss the flop,you cbet and villian calls.Turn you might have be leaning towards another bullet,instead check it. Overplaying AK is a quick way to drain a account.

- You bet each street with your QQ on a rainbow board and the villian spews on the river.
Instead of calling,tank and think about it and fold. This is hard and takes practice.

Those are two of my leaks that I work on and over time it has gotten easier to make the correct play with practice. It builds up self control.
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 01:19 PM
(#4)
shirshot's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 665
I will give you some ideas later when I have time to write. Money has never been important in
my life. I would play wreckless like that too. When I do something like playing poker I get very
competitive and want to be the best, but my original "problem" was I thought I needed to win big
to be a winning/great player so I would build my bankroll up to jump into a bigger game/tourney
just to toss my bankroll away.
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 01:44 PM
(#5)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
thanks all thats some great feedback, i see your point iseecookies about not caring about the money, but to me i just want to win eveything and be the best, i hate losing but not the money just the pride.
ty mtnestegg i should start caring but its hard to care about something you have never had.
And ty shirshot that sounds all too true and look forward to if you have the time to tell me how you dealt with this.
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 03:03 PM
(#6)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
i've never had money either. struggled for most of my adult life to make ends meet every month.(which make me want to not piss it away, be it in poker or anything else) when every dollar counts, make sure they (every dollar) do.


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 03:18 PM
(#7)
Feskprins's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
as i beleive money does not buy happiness.
I DO NOT AGREE!

Seriously though, there are a couple of things you absolutely need to change or do in order to win at poker.

1. THINK - Yes, seriously. I guarantee you that a lot of players would be winning ones if they would only think. "But I am thinking", you say? I thought so too, but really, most of my decisions had no thought behind them. I found myself raising just for the sake of raising, or calling, or folding, or betting, but do you REALLY have a plan? What do you want to accomplish with your action, and is it the most profitable way to play this hand? To do this, you must....

2. READ - ...learn about odds and equity. If you're playing cash games, this is absolutely essential. You can get away with playing against the odds SOMETIMES (or at least direct odds) in tournaments, but you just can't in cash games, because you're playing with actual, real money. You may win THIS hand if you call the pot-sized bet with your flush draw and hit your flush draw, but you're going to lose money in the long run.

3. RANGE/PAY ATTENTION - This is obviously very important. Just a couple of days ago, I had kings on the button and decided to just call the open raise, and we go to a threeway pot. Flop comes 9TK and I flop top set. One of the opps bet, and the other one shoves (his starting stack was $5, full buyin at 2NL, and I had him covered). I folded, because by paying attention and gathering reads on him, I knew exactly what his plan was; To flop something strong and stack the other player in the pot, which is why he called his open raise to begin with. There is absolutely no way he's doing this without a straight, so I comfortably fold the second nuts. The other guy calls and sure enough, he shows down QJ and rakes a huge pot. Unfortunately, a ten came on the turn, giving me a full house, but calling there is defenitely -EV, and even though I would have won the hand, I made the right decision. Range them properly, and make your decisions based on what you estimate their hands to be.

4. MINDSET - Roland GTX made a nice post about the optimal mindset when you play poker (available here) and I'd like to add something to this. "I REALLY WANT TO WIN" is not a good mindset. Poker is about making the right decisions, and EVERY decision and detail is important. So, instead fo being focused on winning, focus on making the right decisions. There's an important reason for this, and that is that you create a picture in your mind that you must see your bankroll increase, and quite frankly, that will not always happen. Instead of thinking "did I win this session?", ask yourself, "did I make the right decisions this session?". And you HAVE to be honest with yourself here. Which leads me to the next point:

5. CRITICIZE YOURSELF - Oh indeed, this is where all losing players fail. They are just unable to identify their bad plays and rationalize them instead. "I lost because this guy is a donk" or "I should have won but I lost this and this hand, because...." etc. I absolutely love these people, because those are the ones I profit from. IF myou don't want to be one of them, you have to be able to plug your leaks and learn from your mistakes. Analyze exactly what you did wrong and how you reached that conclusion, and then learn from your mistakes. Reading and studying poker is there to give you the tools to doing this.

5½. PATIENCE - Self explanatory. Don't try to force things to happen. This may sound extremely stupid, but honestly, what really turned my poker around was from a Pokerstars commercial. You all know which one I'm talking about. I haven't been a losing player since. Holdemace, don't do anything stupid.

6. BUY A TINFOIL HAT - The biggest reason why you lose.

Honestly, I don't care WHY you lose. I don't care if it's because you don't care about money, because you were tired, because you got frustrated, or because your cat landed on your mouse and clicked "CALL WITH FULL BANKROLL" (new feature, Stars?). You're still losing, and it's all because of BAD PLAYS AND BAD DECISIONS. There is absolutely no way we can summarize all the important stuff in one post, or even one thread, but I have taken my time to write this to help you on your way. We can't get better for you, you have to do it yourself. Poker is hard, and you should be thankful for it, because your hard work will pay off. If poker was easy, there would be no competition.


....
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 03:18 PM
(#8)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
If it's truly about a sense of prestige or accomplishment for you holdem and not so much money then you only need to wrap your head around one simple,harsh truth of poker.

Money is how you keep score. Period. Who wins it,who loses it.

No one cares about the "I played the hand perfect but the cards were against me...yada,yada,yada." stuff. Not from you,not from me,not from anyone. Sure we try to help each other improve through analysis and teaching here,but at the end of the day it's about one simple thing.

Did you win or did you lose. And money is the measuring stick. It's cruel and harsh maybe but there it is.

You put up some post a couple weeks back about how you felt satisfied by getting your current roll back to even again or something like that. That mindset is never going to work in this game or in any other competitive endeavor. Because the second you're content is the second you stop working hard enough.And that's when you lose ground to people that are still putting nose to grindstone.

"Don't look back---something might be gaining on you."

Satchel Paige
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 03:22 PM
(#9)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Find something you do care about in poker and focus on doing that. I don't focus on the money, but on trying to make good decisions. You say you want to "be the best". Have you defined what that means? Is it a particular game that suits you better you want to be best in? If you want to be the best in everything your statement is meaning less.

So define what being the best means to you and look hard at yourself to see what is preventing this from happening. Taking that hard, brutally honest look inward is difficult but essential. It's hard find the path to your destination if you don't know where you're starting from.

Next break it down into manageable pieces, sub goals for each step. To be effective goals must be both manageable and have a time frame attached. Something like, work up from $x 27 man SnG to level $y while maintaining z buy-ins by the end of the year, is how a goal should be expressed. It manageable, measurable and time constrained.

The more of yourself you put into obtaining your goal the more meaningful is will be when achieved.

Good Decisions!
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 03:41 PM
(#10)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
tyvm feskpins..moxie and trumpin....sat ere for ten minutes speechless...........and still lost for words

Last edited by holdemace486; Sun Mar 18, 2012 at 03:41 PM.. Reason: typo
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 03:42 PM
(#11)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
and ty mt
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 03:52 PM
(#12)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Totally agree with Moxie - cash is the only way to keep score at poker, without it the game descends to farce.

Eventually it tells you if you are good or bad or at least improving at the game.

If you get careless when you have too much of it move up a level or ship it off to your friends/your family/your favourite charity. Then start again and set yourself a new challenge and a target. It doesn't have to be total cash winnings but win rates, time factors etc.

I don't worship the cash, though I like a little extra treat now and then. I don't have to worry about money, even though I'm near the bottom of the food chain in my very wealthy country. I play poker for the challenge and the interest and to keep my declining brain active - there are worse things I could do - so if you are spending a lot of time at the tables without caring maybe you should find other outlets for your time and energy, but if you want to play the $$$ are the only thing that really counts, whatever you choose to do with them once you have built them up.

Poker doesn't often work without the real cash - as we all know from freerolls and play money - it changes the dynamic of the game - even if it doesn't matter to you it matters to most of your opponents and that is why it still reflects your skill level - (and no you can't say you have the skills but you don't bother to use them when you get ahead and get bored because that in itself is a function of your skill set)

Win some dollars and use them wisely.

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 04:07 PM
(#13)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
The one thing that I do is.... I approach each game with the same intenisty/mindset, regardless of what level it is. I don't care if it's a freeroll or a $350 WSOP circuit event. I'm in each and every single one of them to have a +ROI and then once ITM, then to FT and then win it.
Treating a small buy-in or freeroll diffrently and not caring about how I play in them... does NOT help develop ones game.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 07:01 PM
(#14)
shirshot's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 665
Here is the first thing I did to stay focussed, It may sound silly but it has worked very well for me.

I have a note pad that sits on my desk to record all my tourney results and cash results. It looks like this.(separate page for cash & tourney)

Buy in win/loss Total winnings Total profit/loses

.25 -.25 -.25
1.50 -1.50 -1.75
.25 +2.11 +1.86 +.11

Etc Approx 23 lines long.

My goal with this is to show a profit at the end of each page and it is in my view at all times while
playing to remind me of my goal.( amount of profit does not matter)

I do not always show a profit at the end of each page but when I'm near the end of the page and
losing vs profitting I get a little more focussed on the goal at hand.

This also reminds me that one tournament or cash game loss does not matter, its long term
results I'm after.

As always we as poker players are trying to win as much as possible, So my next adjustment is
what has made me the most profit. "Slowing down" Not firing on every street just because I got a
pair of Kings dealt to me. Yes I will raise preflop with this hand but I try not to ship it preflop unless
someone drags me all in. Most likely on the flop I will C-Bet this hand (flop/player dependant)
On the turn is a different story.
You need to protect your hand as much as you need to protect your stack/bankroll.
In the end money you save spends the same as money you won or is still in your bankroll.

We all want to take stabs at a tourney/cash table that is bigger than our bankroll and thats ok in
moderation but once you take your chance go back to good bankroll management until build back up.

On each one of my pages/record I take a stab or three at the higher tourneys but win or lose I go back to my regular buy ins.

It may take months or longer at a time to build up to the next levels but the more practise you have
the better your chances when you get there.
There is other things to try but its always best to change one or two things at a time until you have
them down pat. For me it is max one thing at a time or i cofuse myself.


(Why do these posts not save is they show when your typing them)

Last edited by shirshot; Sun Mar 18, 2012 at 07:08 PM..
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 07:39 PM
(#15)
shirshot's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 665
Also you may have read many times by many valuable PSO members that you need a plan for your hand and you need to know your reason why your raising/calling.
Are you raising to get them off their hand?
(Small bet here not likely to work. Is it worth it?)
Are you raising to build a pot for your draw?
(Should be small enough to still able to fold without being too invested in the pot)
Are you raising to make them pay for their draw?
(make it enough that they not getting the right odds to call,They may call and win this hand but in the long run they will lose)
Are you raising just because you raised the last street and feel like you have to?
(If this is why stop that now!)
Are you calling because you want to see the flop cheap?
(How many people behind you and are they likely to raise?)
Are you calling to trap?
(What if that one card comes out and you can't bet for value anymore or they caught that one outer)

One very important thing to do. Before calling that big river bet after you been raising every street,
stop count to five before calling. This will give your brain time to process possible reasons why they waited to jam the pot on the river and you will find yourself folding once in a while because you know your beat.
This means you saved money = To making money.
 
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Mon Mar 19, 2012, 07:20 AM
(#16)
Ron112355's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 478
Wow some really good advice has been given here OP, I would bookmark this page and come back and read it often,....

Good luck on and off the felts.....
 
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Tue Mar 20, 2012, 03:11 AM
(#17)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
thank you edin,jw and shirshot great solid advice and ty all this post as had some outstanding replies. much appreciated, its like reading a poker book full of great knowledge.
 

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