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TT in the big blind against a 3bet

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TT in the big blind against a 3bet - Tue Mar 20, 2012, 03:05 PM
(#1)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340


No specific reads on the opponents. Both haven't made any crazy moves and appear to be playing a decent game.
I'm in the Big Blind with pocket 10. So far I've been playing very snug. I had an early double-up with pocket aces and slowly chipped up a bit from there. When the UTG/MP shorty makes a 2 x raise, I'm planning to put him all-in when it gets to me. Then the button makes a 2.5 x 3bet. Now he could be trying to squeeze, but I haven't a clue if he has that move in him, so I'm assuming he has something. Could be any decent pair or an good ace. Or I could be way off and he has KJ or QT. Not really sure.
Both blinds fold, so now what. Well, obvious -v I opted to continue with my original plan. But I'm not putting the shorty all-in there then, since that could very well invite the button in with a marginal hand. I think it's best to just shove it then and make him choose if he wants to risk his tournament as well.

Opinions?

Last edited by Ov3rsight; Tue Mar 20, 2012 at 03:48 PM..
 
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Tue Mar 20, 2012, 05:29 PM
(#2)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Hi Ov3rsight. What's the tournament format?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ov3rsight View Post
Then the button makes a 2.5 x 3bet. Now he could be trying to squeeze, but I haven't a clue if he has that move in him, so I'm assuming he has something.
This can't be a squeeze, because there wasn't a caller in between the open and the 3bet.

From what I see, the 3bet could be strong or weak, so it's best not to presume that it's either. Don't treat it like more than what it is, just treat it like a 3bet. The standard play when there's a raise and a reraise in front of you is to fold TT, and giving this any more thought might be overthinking things a bit. If you don't have reads, then you don't really have much info to act on, so folding is probably the easy and best choice.

BTW, if this is a SNG, the reason folding TT is standard is because a preflop 3bet from position typically means KK+ from a good player, and that's it. With stacks shorter, QQ and AK become part of their range, and JJ+ and AQ+ are possible. Any wider than that is a stretch. TT is well behind even the loosest of those ranges.
 
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Tue Mar 20, 2012, 05:46 PM
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ahar010's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 614
Hi Oversight,

You are right we can't continue with the original plan here.

Our only option is to shove or fold. A flat call would give the short stack oppurtunity to shove, any kind of 4bet makes us pot commited.

Given we have chipped up a bit already I think I would take the safer line of a fold here. I don't think the button is squeezing I think the smallish 3bet looks like it wants action from the short stack to me. I think we have reduced fold equity because of this and that the short stack might get it in also giving the button a very good price to come along. TT while it has good equity I don't think we're a massive favourite in this spot.

In saying that a shove here isn't horrible we have a small measure of fold equity. There are still worse hands that can call us here and this pot will be sizable with our TT is good and holds up. Just higher risk, higher reward.

Having a double up already I personally would take the lower risk approach now.

Good Luck
Andy




Quad Bracelet Winner

 
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Tue Mar 20, 2012, 06:09 PM
(#4)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahar010 View Post
There are still worse hands that can call us here
In the case of the 3bettor, worse hands should not be 3betting, therefore ^this should not be true. The exception is two overcards like AK, but our edge against those hands is far outweighed by the edge overpairs have vs. our hand. Random players will be making weird plays like 3betting 99 and AT on occasion, and they'll also occasionally have 3bet/folds in their range as well, but if we include those hands in the 3bettor's range without some read they they would tend to have them, I believe we're going to be leaking chips, because more often than not they'll call us and show up with a better range of hands.
 
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Tue Mar 20, 2012, 06:10 PM
(#5)
ahar010's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
BTW, if this is a SNG, the reason folding TT is standard is because a preflop 3bet from position typically means KK+ from a good player, and that's it. With stacks shorter, QQ and AK become part of their range, and JJ+ and AQ+ are possible. Any wider than that is a stretch. TT is well behind even the loosest of those ranges.
Hi Panicky

I think the range is wider than KK+. I think a *good* player would want to isolate a wider range than that vs the short stack and possibly commit the short stack with anything ahead of his percieved range.

Because we are short handed here also I think the range could be more like ATs+, 99+. But you are right that our TT still doesn't play well vs this range. I had initially thought there could be some smaller pairs in there or an ocassional KQs but that range a good player would probably shove vs the short stack raise rather than 3bet and open the door for our man Ov3rsight




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Tue Mar 20, 2012, 06:13 PM
(#6)
ahar010's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
Random players will be making weird plays like 3betting 99 and AT on occasion.
Wow snap!




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Tue Mar 20, 2012, 06:53 PM
(#7)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahar010 View Post
Wow snap!
Psychic powers?
 
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Wed Mar 21, 2012, 12:55 AM
(#8)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post

BTW, if this is a SNG, the reason folding TT is standard is because a preflop 3bet from position typically means KK+ from a good player, and that's it.
Well, I'm always playing the same thing
This was a $1.50 9man SnG

I disagree on your KK+ assessment though - you say "from a good player". Yet most of the players at this level aren';t really good players, probably myself included. Also - 3bets these days don't mean KK+ anymore if you can believe what you see on tv

Anyways, I shoved . the shorty folded and the button called all-in with AK off and lost.
 

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