Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Tournament Section (MTTs & STTs) /

50c 45 man turbo, am i committed whatever the hand

Old
Default
50c 45 man turbo, am i committed whatever the hand - Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:11 PM
(#1)
darkmajik365's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 191


Just a spot where i opted to call taking a 60-40 shot with what pretty much had to be 2 live cards. Can I even fold here? I prefer to gamble in these spots than lose another precious bb.
 
Old
Default
Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:55 PM
(#2)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
I generally made it a rule of thumb to never surrender my bb if it was an ISO spot to call and I was at 5bb's or less and the bubble had burst,as is the case here. That could change due to some considerations beyond my control (say there are 2 or more all-ins ahead of me and I can potentially ladder climb by folding---that's a viable play with a hand like you have here for sure).

I think this is a particularly interesting and teachable spot because of the effective stack sizes and their positions on the table.

As short as you are here were it me my next consideration in any plays I make would be with how I can best give myself a chance for 5th place in this tourney,as there is a big difference between the top 4 stacks here and the bottom 3. And the two other short stacks are next to act (and thus take the blinds themselves).

Some would say that folding here is OK as either one of the stacks behind you,or both of them,could go out in the next hand or two (especially if there is an imminent blind level jump coming,you could clock the jump onto their blinds potentially...). That's a viable argument but they could also double up as well. Or better.

Myself I prefer to have my fate in my hands in a spot like this instead of hoping for someone else to lose. And the odds work for you here as well. You're putting another 2220 into the pot with a chance to scoop 7965. So better than 3-1 on your call meaning if we even put as narrow a range as 10% for the opener into pokerstove we're getting +EV odds to call. And even more as far as a game play consideration there are implied odds here...if we hit this spot we're going to jump well ahead of the 2 other short stack and have a stack that the 4 big stacks will have to respect some when we attempt to steal and re-steal. The times you miss here you're still getting 7th place money anyway,the times you hit you'll be getting better most times.

Neither move,calling or folding,guarantees anything. Very few moves in poker ever do. But the POTENTIAL gains of the call here far outweigh any downside of missing if we do call or the practical considerations of our situation if we pass.

Nice play and grats on the run good.

How did you make out in this one anyway?
 
Old
Default
Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:57 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,845
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi darkmajik!

This one is a close one. Here's why.
To call is another 2220 into a pot that will be 7965 (27.9%).
The key here is to have a correct read on what the opp will shove with (the looser, the better).
Let's take for example a range of any pair, broadway or Ax. Against that range, 23o has 28.7% equity..... which makes if a very marginal call. If the range is tighter, then the equity goes down, if it's wider, then the call is much easier.

Against an opp that is playing very tight, I'm folding 23o here. With the range I listed above or with a wider range, I'll call. I'm not sure where the 60/40 comment came from, as even against a random hand, 23o only has 32% equity.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:30 PM
(#4)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Hi darkmajik!

This one is a close one. Here's why.
To call is another 2220 into a pot that will be 7965 (27.9%).
The key here is to have a correct read on what the opp will shove with (the looser, the better).
Let's take for example a range of any pair, broadway or Ax. Against that range, 23o has 28.7% equity..... which makes if a very marginal call. If the range is tighter, then the equity goes down, if it's wider, then the call is much easier.

Against an opp that is playing very tight, I'm folding 23o here. With the range I listed above or with a wider range, I'll call. I'm not sure where the 60/40 comment came from, as even against a random hand, 23o only has 32% equity.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)

IF we look at the spot in only the consideration of the odds JW I think it can be close yes,but I just think there are other factors here within the considerations of what we're playing---a 45 man---and how the prize structure is weighted in those that makes this a much clearer call. That and as I said in my first post the effective stack sizes here---I think it's much more a positive EV play to gamble aggressively here and at least try to chip up for 5th or better (which we'll be clearly on the inside track for the times we hit here...) than to pass on this spot and hope for better than 7th without having enough chips ourselves to likely have any chance of being able to determine whether we get there or better ourselves.

Just one of those situations where the spot means more than the cards or odds to me. But then as you know I was always aggressive with trying to get out of being the 7th place finisher in these anyway.
 
Old
Default
Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:09 PM
(#5)
darkmajik365's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 191
I came in 6th in the end as one of the other short stacks doubled and 1 burst and i ran a medium pair into AA and then my A9 got cracked by A5 within a few hands. I always call here because potentially i get a stack to win or give me the opportunity to win the tournament and that is what I play to do always to win unless there is a fantastic chance to ladder climb. I guess with the 60-40 i like to mentally give myself a better chance of winning to make the call, LOL. Thanks for your feedback guys really good for these weird spots you get in turbo tournaments, I'm with you on this Moxie in that I don't wait for players to bust in these positions i put my chips on the line even if i know i'm behind because I want to build a stack and push my way up the money board as winning here gives me the ability to pressure some of the tighter guys with the bigger stacks, in this case 2 of the 4 big stacks had no gamble and just lucked into big hands at times to get chips never seen them push light so winning this pot gave me a realistic shot at top 3 place as they would easily have blinded down short handed from what I had seen.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com