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Is it worth building this pot?

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Is it worth building this pot? - Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:34 PM
(#1)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778


This is from a STT BTW

I won the hand but the reason I ask is I know the guy in small blind is a raising station (64VPiP/17PFR and the guy in BB is a calling station). Others have put chips into the pot and are not folding to a raise.

My question is - Is this worth raising pre flop and building the pot knowing you only hit the flop 1 time in 3. I called the flop because I had 4 realistic outs and had odds but generally you don't have odds unless you start counting the 6 outs from your A and K and you just know someone has a piece and won't fold and improve.
 
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Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:31 PM
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JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovalman View Post


This is from a STT BTW

I won the hand but the reason I ask is I know the guy in small blind is a raising station (64VPiP/17PFR and the guy in BB is a calling station). Others have put chips into the pot and are not folding to a raise.

My question is - Is this worth raising pre flop and building the pot knowing you only hit the flop 1 time in 3. I called the flop because I had 4 realistic outs and had odds but generally you don't have odds unless you start counting the 6 outs from your A and K and you just know someone has a piece and won't fold and improve.
Hi Ovalman.

I do think raising here with AKs is valid, if only for the additional value you hold in terms of the strong DRAWS you may flop in additional to the strength of made hands you might flop.

In FLHE Ovalman, suitedness tends to take on more value than it does in NLHE, and that is reflected in the original Sklansky hand groups which place AKs in group 1, but relegates AKo to group 2.

In situations that figure to stay multi way, and thus lower the likelihood a top/top hand may remain the best hand to the river, one could say raising AKo might be somewhat marginal (although on the BTN I'd still raise it, just not so much in MP/EP), but the extra small bet you may lose as a result of a "clean miss" is not really much compared to the extra 3 or 4 (or more) small bets you might WIN with a premium holding against loose ranges.

As played Ovalman, any thing that hits you except a non club T represents very marginal improvement for your AK, so it is really in your best interests to have gotten your extra value in early, when you stood the best chance of holding the strongest hand.

Hope it helps.

-JDean


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Mar 24, 2012, 05:31 PM
(#3)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I haven't read Sklansky and am unfamiliar with his hand chart but as I've said before, my strengths are in STT's and not limit where I'm break even at best.

I generally raise with AK to thin the field but don't chase even with the 6 outs counted as overcards if I miss the flop. I realise it's value later though as the blinds increase. I read that suited cards only improve your hands by only 3% (or is it 2%?).

You say AKo could be a limp in ep or mp? I know you should always mix your game up but surely by not raising AK in any position is looking for trouble from limpers, especially those still to enter the pot?

Last edited by Ovalman; Sat Mar 24, 2012 at 05:32 PM.. Reason: grammar
 
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Sat Mar 24, 2012, 07:12 PM
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JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovalman View Post
I haven't read Sklansky and am unfamiliar with his hand chart but as I've said before, my strengths are in STT's and not limit where I'm break even at best.

I generally raise with AK to thin the field but don't chase even with the 6 outs counted as overcards if I miss the flop. I realise it's value later though as the blinds increase. I read that suited cards only improve your hands by only 3% (or is it 2%?).

You say AKo could be a limp in ep or mp? I know you should always mix your game up but surely by not raising AK in any position is looking for trouble from limpers, especially those still to enter the pot?
Hi again...

The bigger the pre flop pot is in FLHE, the more chance you want to have to make a hand BETTER than 1 pair.

"Thinning the field" pre flop in FLHE against a lot of calling stations doesn't tend to work well at all; they do not usually make any discrimination between limping along, and calling 2 small bets cold. If this is the case, adding money to the pre flop pot tends to make it possible for more WEAK DRAWS to feel they have odds to stay against you, and this can be dangerous unless you too have a chance to pick up re-draw outs.

I never meant to imply that you should NEVER raise AKo in MP/EP, but if you do so at a table where "they" WILL take every excuse to run you down with all sorts of weak draws, raising AKo in MP/EP can greatly increase your variance. For a cash game, that might not be such a problem, but in a MTT/SNG it can wind up costing you your entire BI...not just a couple extra lost bets here and there that are returned when the donks do not catch lucky.

So I try to stick with raising hands pre flop that not only have high card/pair value, but those which also may have additional suited or connected value as well, when I am playing a lot of severe calling stations oop.

Or I really like raising hands like your AKs here, on the button when I get to see all the action in front of me AFTER I have assessed any threats to my hand on the flop!




-JDean


Double Bracelet Winner

Last edited by JDean; Sat Mar 24, 2012 at 07:16 PM..
 

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