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Its not that much of a big deal:

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Its not that much of a big deal: - Sun Mar 25, 2012, 07:58 PM
(#1)
Tonk Shuffle's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 618


I am looking forward to moving up in stakes. Any suggestions for someone with a $50 BR? What would be the next step after 25c STTs?

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Sun Mar 25, 2012, 08:06 PM
(#2)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
There are 25c STT's?

I started playing $1.5 STT's on a $45 bankroll. It's only 30BI, so it's not 100% recommended, but it's a low enough limit that you might be able to get away with it.

Congratulations. Don't you owe me money?
 
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Sun Mar 25, 2012, 10:51 PM
(#3)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
He means the .25 45 mans. Tonk unfortunately the next level for the SNG's at .50 are turbos. Both the 45 and 90 mans. So unless you want to dip your toe and try them I would suggest continue grinding the .25's until you feel like you're rolled for the $1 45 mans. If you think that $50 is enough then go for it,if not grind more. That's a state of mind thing as well---you want to be able to play the next level properly and be able to ride out any downswings that will inevitably rear their head.
 
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What about 'easing' into BR increases? - Mon Mar 26, 2012, 10:06 PM
(#4)
Tonk Shuffle's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 618
I can now comfortably play 4 of these at a time, so even if my ROI goes down a bit I should be able to earn more. What if every 4th game I played was shot a $1.50 table? What do you think of 50-50 games? If my comparative finishing (exit) stats in tournaments are:

10%early/20%earlymid/30%mid/20%midlate/10%late

1%/5%/39%37%/18% <<<< Then I should be in the money 55% to 73.5% of the time. Would there be valve in these?



Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

I had decided pre-flop to call if he shoved at my raise, because at this point his range seemed to be any 2 cards. He had a huge 5 to 1 chip lead going into heads up, and then he tilted.
 
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Mon Mar 26, 2012, 10:42 PM
(#5)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonk Shuffle View Post
I can now comfortably play 4 of these at a time, so even if my ROI goes down a bit I should be able to earn more. What if every 4th game I played was shot a $1.50 table? What do you think of 50-50 games? If my comparative finishing (exit) stats in tournaments are:

10%early/20%earlymid/30%mid/20%midlate/10%late

1%/5%/39%37%/18% <<<< Then I should be in the money 55% to 73.5% of the time. Would there be valve in these?



Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

I had decided pre-flop to call if he shoved at my raise, because at this point his range seemed to be any 2 cards. He had a huge 5 to 1 chip lead going into heads up, and then he tilted.
For my way of thinking SNG's are what you grind,not what you shot take in. I definitely am on board with the idea of 4 tabling (and even seeing if you can get higher) as it will increase your earnings should you be able to keep your ITM and ROI %'s relevantly the same.

But if you're playing the .25's then play the .25's with THAT % of your money. If you want to segregate some of your money aside for a separate shot take in another type of game that's a good way to go. But don't mix and match different levels in one grind,that could get messy.

The thing with the 50/50's tonk is this...it looks like a deceptively simple concept---just be one of 5 out of 10 remaining and have some chips. But you will need to be right around that higher ITM % to turn a profit in these from what I saw when I could play them. The $1.11's ($1.50's are the equivalent now...) were something I started trying out like a week before US peeps got the axe here and I liked them alright but I hit a good ITM number and it was still no slam dunk to be profitable.

Here's what my numbers in them looked like to give you an idea:

34/47 ITM (72.34%)
Money in: $52.17
Money won: $64.99
Profit: $12.82
Profit per game: 27.27c per game
ROI: +24.57%

So as you can see I did turn a solid profit at them,as short a sample as it was,but needed to hit the very top of your ITM % expectations/hopes to do so. Go very much below that at all and it's going to get unprofitable very quickly. Dave (TheLangolier) once guesstimated that somewhere around 68-70% would be a good rule of thumb for a break even point on these and I'm inclined to agree. It's doable,from what I've seen YOU have the game to do it...but with the ITM % have to's being as high as they are I would want to be a little deeper BR wise were I you. Get to $100 and these would be a better option if you're looking for any kind of volume at all.

I feel where you're at tonk---you've grinded up,had success and now are looking around "window-shopping" all the games that may be opening up to you now. Nothing wrong with that. Just keep your wits,make solid decisions within your BR and that way you can just relax and keep playing your game.

Good luck/better decisions.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 10:48 PM..
 
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Tue Mar 27, 2012, 10:32 AM
(#6)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
He means the .25 45 mans. Tonk unfortunately the next level for the SNG's at .50 are turbos. Both the 45 and 90 mans. So unless you want to dip your toe and try them I would suggest continue grinding the .25's until you feel like you're rolled for the $1 45 mans. If you think that $50 is enough then go for it,if not grind more. That's a state of mind thing as well---you want to be able to play the next level properly and be able to ride out any downswings that will inevitably rear their head.
++++++
 
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Thanks Moxie - Tue Mar 27, 2012, 09:57 PM
(#7)
Tonk Shuffle's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
For my way of thinking SNG's are what you grind,not what you shot take in. I definitely am on board with the idea of 4 tabling (and even seeing if you can get higher) as it will increase your earnings should you be able to keep your ITM and ROI %'s relevantly the same.

But if you're playing the .25's then play the .25's with THAT % of your money. If you want to segregate some of your money aside for a separate shot take in another type of game that's a good way to go. But don't mix and match different levels in one grind,that could get messy.

The thing with the 50/50's tonk is this...it looks like a deceptively simple concept---just be one of 5 out of 10 remaining and have some chips. But you will need to be right around that higher ITM % to turn a profit in these from what I saw when I could play them. The $1.11's ($1.50's are the equivalent now...) were something I started trying out like a week before US peeps got the axe here and I liked them alright but I hit a good ITM number and it was still no slam dunk to be profitable.

Here's what my numbers in them looked like to give you an idea:

34/47 ITM (72.34%)
Money in: $52.17
Money won: $64.99
Profit: $12.82
Profit per game: 27.27c per game
ROI: +24.57%

So as you can see I did turn a solid profit at them,as short a sample as it was,but needed to hit the very top of your ITM % expectations/hopes to do so. Go very much below that at all and it's going to get unprofitable very quickly.

Good luck/better decisions.
I liked the idea of segregating funds, so I am taking a $3 (2 entry) shot at Fifty50 STTs. So far I have cashed 7/8 games, with a profit of $8.32. I am back to single tables and extensive note taking until I get to $50 profit. Then back to multi-tables after that. Check my blog for updates!


This hand was both a pleasant surprise, and my best result so far:

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner
 
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re post - Wed Mar 28, 2012, 01:47 AM
(#8)
milehigh0874's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 256
if this result is from a 50/50 i would guess a large % of your profit came from this game,something to keep in mind.
i tried these at the $7 level and cashed 9/10 which was profitable but if you start just bubbling games,or fall to a 60-70% itm you will notice,that a downswing will kill your br quickly
 
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Wed Mar 28, 2012, 04:27 AM
(#9)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
If you're only new to these Fifty/50's (or any game) then game selection is important.

Sit and watch the lobby for 5 mins before you join any games and identify the multi tablers. You don't want to be sat at a table with a load of them as they will be playing it ABC and difficult to play against. Even at $1.50 levels there are dozens of ABC players playing 6 - 24 tables.

When you do join a game be wary of where the multi tablers are sat. Remember you can adjust your game against them, loosen up and steal there blinds. They won't get involved unless their really strong, remember they won't be doing anything fancy.

Finally, put your name down for Ed's Fifty/50 challenge on the Challenges thread. Only a few days to go but you might as well give yourself a chance of winning something extra.
 
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Thanks for the heads up: - Wed Mar 28, 2012, 06:28 AM
(#10)
Tonk Shuffle's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehigh0874 View Post
if this result is from a 50/50 i would guess a large % of your profit came from this game,something to keep in mind.
i tried these at the $7 level and cashed 9/10 which was profitable but if you start just bubbling games,or fall to a 60-70% itm you will notice,that a downswing will kill your br quickly
It is an unknown area of poker for me. From what I have seen of my tournament stats, a down swing puts me around 55%. So I understand that starting with 2 buy-ins puts me at risk. My hope is that these are easier to survive than MTTs. If things don't workout at least I got some experience with a different type of holdem game. I will move back down to 25c 90 mans until I am ready to take another shot. In the meantime I earned some FPPs comparatively fast. What do you think about Knockout STTs? Are they a safer bet? Any ideas on what to do with the FPPs?
 
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re post - Wed Mar 28, 2012, 07:21 AM
(#11)
milehigh0874's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 256
i havnt had much to do with knockout stts,but any stts if your regularly itm will be good for you and your fpps are great for sattellites into tourneys instead of a cash buy in,also dont forget to use the vip store in the cashier - vip rewards, and redeem some $$$
 
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Hi Ovalman! Thanks for the tips: - Wed Mar 28, 2012, 07:21 AM
(#12)
Tonk Shuffle's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovalman View Post
If you're only new to these Fifty/50's (or any game) then game selection is important.

Sit and watch the lobby for 5 mins before you join any games and identify the multi tablers. You don't want to be sat at a table with a load of them as they will be playing it ABC and difficult to play against. Even at $1.50 levels there are dozens of ABC players playing 6 - 24 tables.

When you do join a game be wary of where the multi tablers are sat. Remember you can adjust your game against them, loosen up and steal there blinds. They won't get involved unless their really strong, remember they won't be doing anything fancy.

Finally, put your name down for Ed's Fifty/50 challenge on the Challenges thread. Only a few days to go but you might as well give yourself a chance of winning something extra.
I have found a couple tables already with several multi-tablers and regulars. Some are pretty good! I color code their avatars, take notes on their play, and take note that they are multi-tabling.

As far as play goes; stealing blinds seems to be a very important part of playing these. Especially as the blinds go up, stealing becomes more profitable, as each 100 chips is 4c more. Generally, my style of play is fairly conservative, I just play my best hands, and try to exploit weakness/leaks that I find in others.

Thanks for telling me about Ed's Fifty/50, there is a lot going on in this forum still to discover. I should probably try it next month.

Ultimately I hope to join the ranks of these multi-tablers. But first I shall build my BR. After that, I hope to play enough volume to earn 750FPPs a month.

Cheers!
 

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