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evaluation please

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evaluation please - Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:07 PM
(#1)
milehigh0874's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 256
this villain is a f#%#%n re@$rd,according to poker prolabs is a below average player, has been on the table and playing 95% of hands with absolute rags and sh#$# and hitting about 75% of them,take note of the action,player positions and all,i need advice on how to deal with a player like this,thoughts on how i played the hand and some tranquuilizers and a new computer screen


Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

pokers poker but im so sick of playing,making relatively good reads on opps and getting bent over and violated by idiots
 
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Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:29 PM
(#2)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
The thing to remember is that although you happened to lose this hand, this player is going to give you lots of money most of the time. You had the right read and made the right play, most of the time this is going to pay off for you.

Sometimes you do everything right and still lose, you need to be able to take this in stride and rebound. I would have immediately rebought to give myself another chance to stack this player. They are bound to lose a big pot sooner or later, you just need to be there to pick up the chips.

 
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Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:28 PM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
It seems like this is largely a bad beat complaint, but you did ask for evaluation on your own play and that is a very good thing because that's what you can actually control!

I think there's a couple problems with how you played this hand personally.

First of all preflop, the min-reraise is really not good. This is a topic that comes up in live training over and over again. It is a pretty consistent bet sizing tell of a huge hand. The preflop call of the villain with J9 off isn't great, considering their position at the table, but it's tempting when you basically turn your hand face up and they know they will get your stack when they hit. I would probably fold here in this position but if I were on the button I would call you for sure to take a shot at your stack for a 5bb investment.

Likewise on the flop, your bet is fine but so is the villains call. Again it is part and parcel with the fact that your hand is marked as a premium pair and it seems unlikely you are going to let it go, the villain has an 8 out draw and is getting implied odds of 6-1 to call if they get your stack when they turn the straight. And since they have the non-obvious draw getting your stack seems assured.

On the turn the villains call is pretty terrible, the odds are no longer even remotely there to draw. However I'm not a huge fan of your bet either. When you pot the flop and get called, what is your range for the villain? Sure they have draws in their range, but they also have made hands. The problem is a ton of those made hands are now beating you... on the flop they call perhaps with sets as a slowplay and worse 1 pair hands, but all the flopped top pairs just sucked out. Your holding is much more tenuous now on the turn so I'm not sure potting it is the best course of action. Depending on the aggression levels of the opponent you might bet less, like half the pot, and fold to a jam. Or check-call vs. aggro players. Or check-fold vs. conservative passive players (which we already know this one is not even close to lol).

If they're going to call you down light which it seems like this villain might be prone to doing, then I do like betting again on the turn. But potting it is not the best line imo because it stacks you off vs. Qx and full houses, where as a smaller bet sizing still gives draws a bad price but allows you to get away from the hand if raised.

Don't get me wrong, the villain played poorly for sure (particularly on the turn), but not as poorly as you think due to mistakes you made along the way.

Dave


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
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re post - Thu Mar 29, 2012, 09:27 PM
(#4)
milehigh0874's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 256
fair enough but whats he put me on i couldve had quads and he s drawing dead,point is hes playing the stats stated and rubbish cards like j5 off etc,thnx for not giving me the "keep makin +ev decisions" speech cos i could show you at least 20+ hands a day that sap my br and prove that it aint necessarily the truth,ive said it before i know im not the best player and my game needs work,but this crap is more the norm than not in my experiences here
 
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Fri Mar 30, 2012, 12:01 AM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehigh0874 View Post
fair enough but whats he put me on i couldve had quads and he s drawing dead,
He's not trying to put you on anything most likely, he's simply a level 1 thinker. That is obvious since you played your hand basically face up and he still chased.

Quote:
point is hes playing the stats stated and rubbish cards like j5 off etc,thnx for not giving me the "keep makin +ev decisions" speech cos i could show you at least 20+ hands a day that sap my br and prove that it aint necessarily the truth,ive said it before i know im not the best player and my game needs work,but this crap is more the norm than not in my experiences here
Keep making +EV decisions.

Seriously, you asked for analysis of your play so I offered it, if you want to complain about bad beats there's a different forum for that. The TRUTH is that +EV decisions lead to long term profits, period. You're ready to offer up 20 bad beats as an excuse for losing despite "making +EV decisions", yet your play in this hand indicate some fundamental problems in your game.

PS is not rigged. You are not losing long term due to outside forces. Do some opponents play terrible? Of course. Do they sometimes lay gross beats on us? Absolutely. Do they win money in the long term? Ah, no, not even close. Why not? Because they keep making lots and lots of mistakes.

And again the TRUTH: We ALL make mistakes at the table, you do, I do, Phil Ivey does, everyone. If we make fewer mistakes than our opponents, and smaller mistakes, we will win the money over time. Focus on the things you can control, like your own decisions, don't waste energy on the bad play of others or the gross turn of a card, it's counter-productive.

If this response seems a bit harsh, it's meant as a tough love response, because I think that's what you need to get through to you. As long as you blame your inability to win long term on external factors, you will never take the necessary steps to improve your game.

Dave


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
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Fri Mar 30, 2012, 12:07 AM
(#6)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
**TILT**

If you're losing a lot of hands like this, you're probably on a downswing, it will cone to an end sooner or later. It's tough to handle, but the best hand can and will lose multiple times. Keep reviewing your hand histories, and keep an open mind about how you might have played these hands differently.

Stop focusing on the "I had the best hand pre", and work on your game, it's the only way to get better. We've all been there, so you're not alone.

 
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re post - Fri Mar 30, 2012, 01:16 AM
(#7)
milehigh0874's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 256
tilt isnt the problem yeah i was filthy so i stop playin to keep from goin in to tilt mode,i review all meaningful hands myself as i go,i just hate that you try and learn,and apply what you learn and LOTS of the time it doesnt matter how much or what youve learnt against players like this,like i said he played over 90% of hands with crap and won about 85% of them it gets very discouraging
 
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Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:18 AM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehigh0874 View Post
like i said he played over 90% of hands with crap and won about 85% of them it gets very discouraging
imo you have this all wrong. I find it very encouraging. The fact that bad players go on heaters from time to time is what A) keeps them coming back and B) keeps them from trying to improve their game and make less mistakes. Fish heaters are good, not bad.


Head Live Trainer
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4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
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Fri Mar 30, 2012, 03:54 PM
(#9)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Some thoughts for you to mull over...

“It’s hard to convince a winner that he’s losing.”
– Mike Caro, 1985


I really hope you didn't complain to this guy when you lost! You want him to CONTINUE playing badly, because if he does, you can re-load and get him next time.

“Birds you feed so they’ll come around; bums you feed so they’ll go away.”
– Mike Caro, 1989


Guys who will play this loosely, and this badly are birds; if they get lucky and you "feed" them, they stay around. Don;t act like a crazy person though, and spread bread crumbs for the pigeons, then start yelling and scream when they eat.

“If you speak the truth, you spoil the game.”
– Mike Caro, 1984


I think this is pretty obvious; if you wake him up to how badly he played, all you can do is encourage him to play BETTER, or perhaps cause him to make the BEST decision he can make...leave the table.

“In poker, the money eventually flows from the bad players to the good players. Nothing else is possible.”
– Mike Caro, 1981


If you are better than him, the money will tend to return to you...as long as that guy stays.

“When you start somewhere, you’ve started.”
– Mike Caro, 1980


If you start this hand AHEAD, it does not mean you will necessarily finish it ahead. Make sure you have a plan in case you do not stay ahead, and make sure you FINISH well too!

Hope it helps.

-JDean


Double Bracelet Winner

Last edited by JDean; Fri Mar 30, 2012 at 04:04 PM..
 

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