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Would you call or shove?

Would you call or shove? - Wed Apr 04, 2012, 08:03 PM
etipac's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 116
It should have been, fold, call or shove?

So I was on this table for about 20hands original raiser is a tag, reraiser is loose on 3bets...

Original raiser is 13/10/2
Reraiser is 26/24/19 !!!

I did not see the original raiser play bad poker so in position I elected to only call so when it gets 3bet I think that if the original raiser 4bets I will have most probably to fold, he does and for me if he 3bets 2% he will only almost 4bet with KK or KK and if he has AK we might even block each other if the reraiser might have a medium pair or small pair...

Played already with that guy before.

Would you make my same arguement or you would call or shove?


Last edited by etipac; Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 08:30 AM.. Reason: Mis info,,
Thu Apr 05, 2012, 09:43 AM
Sjekkkk's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 141
never call,

I'd shove or fold here. but usually your AK is in a bad spot vs a 4 bet in general, cut yourlosses here and get the next hand
Thu Apr 05, 2012, 05:34 PM
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
Hi Etipac!

Good fold.

When you did not 3bet pre flop vs the open raiser's tight range, you kept your investment small. i am not sure I like the idea of playing AK as "fit or fold" pre flop though...

By doing that, you open more players to come along, and that could well cause you to face a pot that has grown to the point where you'd have to think about committing on any flop hit anyway. If you are reticent about 3betting that tight player with AK because you are not sure a top pair "hit" will be enough, then flatting along when in position doesn't do anything to lend your post flop decisions any more clarity, and it CAN increase your risk with any 1 pair flop when more people come along.

As played...

When the loose BB player 3bet, and you saw a 4bet by the TIGHT player, the pot has grown too LARGE to suspect that you will be facing anything but a very committing bet on the flop. Given that you will have NO pair about 2/3rds of the time, it is probably better to just muck your AKo now while it is still somewhat cheap.

Still, in my opinion a 3bet pre flop to around $2.75 to $3 to go would have probably been a BETTER option, as that probably gets you the chance to see if you DO flop top/top more often, and that means you can re-assess from that point. Afterall, being forced to FOLD $3 is not all that much more damaging than folding $1 (if you see a 4bet and a 5bet), and all the pre flop flat does is make it more likely you CANNOT see the flop you really would like to see here if the EP open raiser is simply isolating on the loose 3bettor.

Hope it helps.


Double Bracelet Winner
Fri Apr 06, 2012, 12:12 PM
etipac's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 116
Usually I almost always 3bet though my reason was that the original raiser was tight and I would have position on him, I 3bet more OOP usually though I did not take in consideration the loose guy and if I did I had to make a larger 3bet of around 4$ as the loose guy is v v loose and saw him calling 3bets often. Though after the 4bet from the TAG I got enough info to make it an easy fold.

Thanks for the help as always!!!


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