Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Tournament Section (MTTs & STTs) /

folded my rockets - $4.40 180man

Old
Default
folded my rockets - $4.40 180man - Sat Apr 07, 2012, 07:06 PM
(#1)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

reason: i smell something fishy with the SB 1BB post flop bet of course I will call that bet hoping to hit my 2 outers of Aces but another opp 3bet hard and SB smooth called.

it's either i shove or fold, if I call most likely i will miss my 2 outer so i'll be wasting more chips

can't call a shove turn without hitting my ace

can't call another turn bet even for 50% pot

so I fold still have lots of chips to play with

let's see - i lose to 66 and 4 which SB might hit because of his super small 1bb bet considering his stacks size, #2 i will lose to a SD and FD if they hit which is the 3 betting range of the other opp

the problem in this hand is we saw the flop 5 way which is so dangerous to my rockets as well

What do you think?
 
Old
Default
Sat Apr 07, 2012, 10:51 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Marvin!

Preflop, this is a great example of why I don't raise to less than 3BB until the blinds are 100/200. Due to this, I'm raising to 450. Smaller raises invite too many players into pots at the early levels. They all may stay for a bet of 450 too, but it may get one or 2 to drop and with AA, I'd really like to thin the field, as AA plays better against less opponents.

Without having a read on the SB, they do have a very large chip stack for this early level, which normally means they're a station that is getting lucky, or had someone shove into a monster hand of theirs.
Normally, a very small bet like the 1BB is used as a blocking bet if the opp has pocket spades, or 56 and doesn't want others raising him and wants to be sure that it's a +EV play to draw.
Here's where reads would really mean something. 66 or A4 or A6 are well within an opps range, especially with the SB calling to make it a 5-way pot. If I put one of them on these, especially 66 or A4, then I can muck AA here, as I've got a playable stack left. When I muck though, I'm really wishing I raised more preflop.

When both opps check the turn, while it's still in their range, I'm not putting them on A4... as the 7 should not have scared them. The river brings a 6 and a bet from the SB and with this bet, I'm putting them on 6x.

I would call a shove on the turn without hitting an A though, as with AA, I'm also calling a shove if another 4 hits (66 or the last 4 is all that is ahead of me).

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 08, 2012, 01:15 AM
(#3)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinsytan View Post
it's either i shove or fold, if I call most likely i will miss my 2 outer so i'll be wasting more chips
I disagree with this. If you choose to play your AA, I think you should be calling with it. There are four categories of hands I can see villains having here:

1) OESD's. This is a hand that would be good to raise, but I think that it constitutes a small enough percent of villain ranges that raising isn't worth it.

2) 6x. Top pair is a possible holding, but it's one that will often fold if you raise. It's not hard to put you on an overpair here, so you should call to keep them in the hand. It's worth noting that there are way more 6x hands than 4x hands in villain ranges, because there are combinatorically more 6's available, and because 6 is a higher card which makes it more likely to have not been folded preflop.

3) Overpairs. There are a lot of these that you are crushing right now. 48, by my count. The weaker ones like 88 should be folding to intense action though, so again, I think it's best that you just call to trap these hands as well.

4) 4x / Full House. There are 41 combinations of this assuming that nobody is playing 43 or 42 preflop. You are about as far behind 4x as a weaker overpair is behind you. Note that there are more weaker overpairs than 4x hands. Also note that raising these hands is worthless, because they're probably never folding.

So really, there's only one hand category that I think you should be raising against, so I really like just flatting, or folding. I noticed that you didn't provide any villain reads. I think that they'd be useful here, because novice players will hang around this pot and get all-in with K6. The weaker the player, the wider their all-in range on this flop. Regs might be really hard to get value from on this flop though, so it would be useful to know who is who here.

Great hand for analysis Marvin. It's a tough one, and I'm not certain what the best course of action is. I lean toward flatting here with the intent to never fold, but never raise either.
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 08, 2012, 09:56 AM
(#4)
ChewMe1's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 574
Hey marvinsytan!

This is quite a common spot in the 180 mans and the actions I take totally depend on what I think of the villain.

Without any reads I would generally assume the SB is a fish because of his bet sizing and the amount of chips he has.

I would elect to call the 150 donk bet and also call the reraise from the player behind us regardless if the SB calls and get it in on most turn cards.

When the player behind us raises the donk bet I tend to put him on a pocket pair which sometimes might entice me to just min 'click it back' and hope he calls/shoves which would force the SB to fold most of his holdings except for 4x and maybe some flush draws. This is a weird line to take and I wouldnt do it all the time it's just one thing that I might consider.

But as played I like flatting the donk bet but I dont like folding to the reraise, im at least going to try and see a turn card and re-evaluate.

For what it's worth, the SB's holding looks like 6x when he leads the river.

Overall their isn't a standard way to play this hand. It is purely player dependant and their is sooo many different lines one could take here. Folding flop would be fine here against some players, again it's all player dependant.

Tough/interesting hand. I hope this helped. Chris.
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 08, 2012, 12:53 PM
(#5)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
hello Teachers,

thank you for the analysis Sir(s)

yes I think I'm such a nit here I should have at least call 875 for the turn card.

150 bet might have been only a 6x and the 2nd opp that reraising is drawing that missed on the river

they both checked the turn so the at least i can get to the river with my rockets then evaluate what to do.

The problem with me is I don't have a clue on my opp's and I don't use HUD.

Playing multi tables and the only time I concentrate on my opp is when i get to the last 2 to 3 tables.

I think I need to get those HUD's to help me in this spot

Analysis really helped. Thank you.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com