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can someone explain this

can someone explain this - Sun Apr 08, 2012, 09:28 PM
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
The reason for being short stacked was my fault . I got too attached to QQ in late position against an EP raiser , but i was a bit on tilt after losing with AA heads up pre flop to QQ in a zoom game ( yes moxie , again ) .
However I dont really understand villains play in this hand at all - am I missing something ? This guy CMS SOARES seems to do quite well in the league , but if this is how he plays God knows how does so well .

Anyway , here is the hand .

PokerStars Hand #78560723596: Tournament #539944015, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2012/04/08 20:33:43 ET
Table '539944015 10' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: kaiuviera (2510 in chips)
Seat 2: CMS SOARES (1180 in chips)
Seat 3: JoeMoses (2490 in chips)
Seat 4: Hanno Dammer (2060 in chips)
Seat 5: Lioha499 (2055 in chips)
Seat 6: frasierbeams (440 in chips)
Seat 7: NoFear106 (3610 in chips)
Seat 8: sameoldwish (2320 in chips)
Seat 9: SixthSense91 (5835 in chips)
SixthSense91: posts small blind 50
kaiuviera: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to frasierbeams [Kh Kd]
CMS SOARES: calls 100
JoeMoses: folds
Hanno Dammer: folds
Lioha499: folds
frasierbeams: raises 340 to 440 and is all-in
NoFear106: folds
sameoldwish: folds
SixthSense91: folds
kaiuviera: folds
CMS SOARES: calls 340
*** FLOP *** [8h 6h 2d]
*** TURN *** [8h 6h 2d] [5h]
*** RIVER *** [8h 6h 2d 5h] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CMS SOARES: shows [Qh 9h] (a flush, Queen high)
frasierbeams: shows [Kh Kd] (two pair, Kings and Eights)
CMS SOARES collected 1030 from pot
frasierbeams finished the tournament in 183rd place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1030 | Rake 0
Board [8h 6h 2d 5h 8d]
Seat 1: kaiuviera (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: CMS SOARES showed [Qh 9h] and won (1030) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 3: JoeMoses folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Hanno Dammer folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Lioha499 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: frasierbeams showed [Kh Kd] and lost with two pair, Kings and Eights
Seat 7: NoFear106 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: sameoldwish (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: SixthSense91 (small blind) folded before Flop

Ok he has me covered , but limping UTG then calling with his hand I think is bad , come on he has Q high .

Any comments would be appreciated
Sun Apr 08, 2012, 10:35 PM
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Mentioned in: 1 post(s)
OK, he made a horrible play. Open shoving would have been much better with Q-rag suited than limping was.

However, when you shoved over his limp weren't you hoping for a call? You need a double-up not the blinds and isolation shoving over a UTG limper is a great way to get a call. Remember You WANT these calls every day. In poker you make more off your opponent's mistakes than you do with superior play.

You made the right play and got the wrong result. Next game please.

Good Decisions!
Mon Apr 09, 2012, 12:04 AM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 20,764
Mentioned in: 184 post(s)
Hi Frasier!

There are two keys with this hand. One is that opps at early levels in a tourney will play any ace or any 2 suited. The other is that the opp could be putting you on tilt if you had just lost a big hand.

With KK as a short-stack, I will shove this everytime in this situation and I want to get called, as I want to more than double up (due to the blinds) and not just to win the 250 chips already in the pot.

After limping (which I wouldn't open-limp with Q9s), to call the all in is only 340 chips into a pot of 1030 (33%). Q9h if against two random cards (which the opp could put someone on, if on tilt) has 57.6% equity. Since the hand equity is higher than the pot equity, it IS a +EV play for the opp to call. To be a breakeven play for the opp, they would have to range the player shoving as playing a top 10.3% hand and a short stack, especially after a bad beat will normally be shoving much, much wider than this.

Yes, it's unlucky to lose with KK here, but if the opp puts a player on tilt, then calling with Q9s is the correct play for them here, as it's a +EV play against a player that can possibly be on tilt.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


4 Time Bracelet Winner

Mon Apr 09, 2012, 01:34 AM
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
of course i want the call , but stuff like this happens too often to me . As for being on tilt , i dont think this ever crossed this guys mind ; he limps virtually every hand from any position. In fact i had fewer chips than this about three hands prior to this one and had KQ in the BB ; this guy and another player limped in and I decided just to check ( perhaps not the best idea given i was so short at the time ) anyway flop came KQx and i shoved , they both folded .

As for the hand in question when I went all in pre flop there was only 690 in the pot and he had to call 340 so ok he is getting approx. 2/1 on a call so he needs to have roughly 30% equity , but given he stack wasnt that healthy itself I cant see how he can call here with the hand he showed . I certainly would not call a short stack shove with Q9 , but maybe these are the type of loose calls I need to make in this league . i have lost count how many times I get it in good , whether pre flop on the flop , turn etc and end up being sucked out on ; bloody infuriating .

Anyway still waiting for the '' long run '' to take effect , whenever that may happen .
Mon Apr 09, 2012, 12:04 PM
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,210
Mentioned in: 18 post(s)
Did this happen in the Open League ?

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