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Who's Giving the Advice?

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Who's Giving the Advice? - Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:10 AM
(#1)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Hey newbie's or anyone else here to learn. I would like to offer an opinion and hope you give some good in depth thought towards it.
Many years ago I heard a statement about learning.... " don't read good books, read only the best books." You see there are many authors that have opinions but not all are credible! Do some research yourself about the author.
Well the same thing goes on this site. When you are reading threads where people are offering advice/suggestions on how to play then look that author up!
How do I look someone up? What is he talking about? First off you can google a screen name this gives lots of info about the player.
Secondly look up their stats ( if they are no they are not hidden LOL) If they play cash you can look them up on xxxxxxxxxxxxx and you can see them. If they play tourneys or sng's you can use poker pro labs or sharkscope. You could also use official poker rankings but this only tracks games of 36+ players so most sng's are not recorded therefore stats are inaccurate.
3 things to look for.
1. are they advising on a game they have no stats for or don't play?
2. do they have a large enough sample size to make their stats worth evaluation
3. are they a winning or losing player?

If these players fail these tests then I would suggest that they probably are not the BEST to be listening to.

Check it out and then see if you still want to pay attention to the advice some give!

Giddy Up!

Last edited by gmanwicksy; Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 06:32 PM.. Reason: tools and services which are prohibited
 
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Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:55 AM
(#2)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
I would have to strongly disagree with you on this one Honu for a couple of reasons.

Bad results does not necessarily equal bad advice and any of the threads on analysis are supposed to contain a range of opinions and not just the "expert" view. From a personal perspective, I am not a winning player by any means, but from a mixture of freerolls, the leagues and some success in other formats it has allowed me to maintain a healthy bankroll and not to have made a deposit in over a year. At one point I was over 4 figures and although I have never regained the losses I made before joining PSO I am fairly content with my lot.

In terms of advice I have taken many players under my wing and many of those have surpassed my own meager level of play based on that advice, just because I do not follow my own advice does not mean that the advice I give is flawed. I play poker for fun, the money side of it is not that important to me. I have tried to knuckle down and play by the book and put in volume but it is just not for me; the enjoyment goes out of it. Maybe it is a character flaw or a huge poker leak , but I will willingly call a full stack bet be that $2, $5 or $10, even when I know I am beat just to confirm it and do you know in a perverse way that is the the craic/fun side of it.

And just a final point, you do not have to be great at the game you play to be a great coach. Leadbetter is sought out by all the golf pros, even though he never was a great player. Alex Ferguson had a low level playing career, but turned out to be arguably the greatest ever football coach/manager. Jose Mourinho regarded by many as one of the best football coaches of all time , never played soccer, studied sports science and got into football management/coaching.

I would say my advice and the advice of many others on here just cannot be blackened because their poker results are not what you think they should be and often that advice is the exact advice that is given by subsequently by the Hand Analysis Team/Trainers.

Cheers,

TC
 
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Fri Apr 13, 2012, 12:32 PM
(#3)
Croyd93's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 639
Hi honu,

I find myself agreeing with TC mainly as when i give my view on something i offer it as an opinion and not advice, I do this not only as it may help someone view it from a different perspective but also then when someone else is giving an opinion or advice later in the thread they can also give a critique to my view as well (the langolier has done this on a few occasions when i have commented on a thread).

I find this to be very useful and one of the best things about PSO is that you can get multiple views on a hand or topic. Yes advice of more skilled players is worth more and better to take on board but i would encourage anyone no matter what level they play at to commet on threads and give there opinion as it helps improve there own game as well as sometimes helping other
 
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Fri Apr 13, 2012, 12:37 PM
(#4)
AceKingBlows's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 101
BronzeStar
Agree and disagree, you certainly have to take what some members say with a pinch of salt but by advising people to ignore the advice of others, the community aspect of what is a site designed to improve EVERYONE will almost certainly begin to wane.

Also, the information found at sites such as xxxxxxxxxxxis far from accurate - it shows me as having played 1600 hands @ 10 NL and having won 2$. In reality my PT3 shows me to have played in excess of 2k hands and to be showing a profit of just shy of $30 (with an EV of around +$55). Though some sites (namely pokerprolabs) are far more accurate in my experience.

Edit: Additionally if I happen to venture some dubious advice - I'm more than happy to be told so by a trainer (and I'd like to think anyone else here would be) or another member (and vice versa) this is how we learn, after all

Last edited by gmanwicksy; Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 06:31 PM.. Reason: tools and services which are prohibited
 
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Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:37 PM
(#5)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I have a 15% ROI in 4,500 STT's on Stars but I've posted many things on forums that I've since discovered were wrong. The only way I found out they were wrong was by posting my views in the first place.

I'd emplore any person to post in a thread if they think they have a point. Even if you're wrong, someone will correct you and many times the Eureka moment hits and you discover something that you never understood before.
 
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Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:08 PM
(#6)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
I also disagree with Honu's comments
Sites with info on players are incomplete (some have 20-30% of the info missing). Most players that look up players, don't know what to look for anyway.

This is a school, we have trainers that will give you a text book answer, based on mathematical results and their experience. For me, those are the people I will listen to and as for the rest of the postings, they are just opinions, and everybody is entitled to it.

 
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Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:47 PM
(#7)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Hey folks, my point is simply to get the best education. Everyone has an opinion and I would not suggest you not offer one. We are free to speak.
Ace as I pointed out volume is key so 1600 or 10k hands is too small a sample anyway.
Top very good examples of exactly my point. All those people you mention have stats to back them up. They are not the same stats as in poker but they are clearly recognised as leaders in their field. They are proven. They truly are the best.
I did not infer any of you are good, bad or indifferent. But would you rather graduate from Harvard or XYC U?
PSO is a fantastic source of great material. There is also some good material and frankly some crap! Focus on the great stuff is my point!
Re: sites and stats, the same is true for where you seek your info thanks for pointing that out Sandy. There are definately sites that are flawed and incomplete but there are very good sites with accurate stats! What site did you go to that shows the stats saying that most people dont know how to interpret the stats they are looking at? Or is that just another opinion? LOL.


Last edited by 19honu62; Fri Apr 13, 2012 at 07:56 PM..
 
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Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:20 PM
(#8)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
Top very good examples of exactly my point. All those people you mention have stats to back them up. They are not the same stats as in poker but they are clearly recognised as leaders in their field. They are proven. They truly are the best.

Hi Honu,

If anything it is a contradiction of your original point

They are the best coaches and are recognised as such but in terms of success within the chosen discipline as participants they never made the grade. Hence my point that advice or opinions and whether it is valuable or not has nothing to do with the performance of those offering it.

Brilliant coaches do not have to be brilliant at the sport or game that they coach, but if anyone can coach me how to stop playing poker while somewhat intoxicated I might actually end up being profitable

On that note, it is time for me to hit the hay and save my pennies Although if I am found playing outside my skill level and my bankroll later tonight do not be surprised

Cheers,

TC
 
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Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:21 PM
(#9)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
What site did you go to that shows the stats saying that most people dont know how to interpret the stats they are looking at? Or is that just another opinion? LOL.

What are you talking about Willis???
What I'm saying is that most if not all new players (as per your OP, NEWBIE'S) will look at a global stat and see a losing player and assume he's definitely a losing player, but maybe that same player as learned and has become a winning player in the last 5 weeks, or that if he was to look at a specific type of game, that same player might be a winning player.

Don't need to go to any site for that stat, it's so obvious when players post comments "I can see by your stats.........."

I don't believe in stats, but my notes on players say a lot more
But for advice, I'll go with the reputation of the person, not any Joe blow...
 
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Sat Apr 14, 2012, 09:30 AM
(#10)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Sandy learning how to read stats and knowing what they are telling you is a very key part of knowing your opponents. This is one piece on top of taking good notes which we know you do.
So let me ask you then do you not look up anyone's stats? Or you do but you are one of the few that can interpret them!
That is actually a great learning thread or training topic to know how to read the stats! IMO if you are not looking ta a players long term and short term stats you are missing information much like taking vague notes.

Giddy Up!
 
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Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:53 AM
(#11)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
Sandy learning how to read stats and knowing what they are telling you is a very key part of knowing your opponents. This is one piece on top of taking good notes which we know you do.
So let me ask you then do you not look up anyone's stats? Or you do but you are one of the few that can interpret them!
That is actually a great learning thread or training topic to know how to read the stats! IMO if you are not looking ta a players long term and short term stats you are missing information much like taking vague notes.

Giddy Up!
I RARELY look at other players stats. It won't tell me how a player plays from a certain position, if he's LAG or TAG, if he's got a very high VPIP, etc etc. So where does it mention that on the graph? Besides, when you are playing live, you don't know the player and you don't carry Sharkscope with you.
Just like Dave, Dave and John did during their satellites, you need to study the player......... NOT look up a players graph....DOH

Yes sometimes I might look up a player, but only to know if he's a regular or not, which I will then put in my notes

PS. Your comment about me being "one of the few that can interpret them!" was a stupid azz comment
 
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Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:13 PM
(#12)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I think you digress from Honu's original point about who to listen to when getting advice.

Sharkscope and other sites are a great resource on the quality of your oponent. Many times there's a fine line between a madness and genius and a graph can quickly tell you the difference. I had a load of notes on an opponent on Ongaming, most were that he was loose aggressive and got involved in many pots (before I had HEM) .

I decided to check his username after encountering him several times and he was the biggest winner on the network at all stakes below $10. Many other players are loose aggressive, playing the sam pre flop game as him with a wide range, the only thing is he knows what he's doing.

In the end I was able to adjust my game to him, maybe not profit as he done but I knew how to play him.
 
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Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:54 PM
(#13)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
I RARELY look at other players stats. It won't tell me how a player plays from a certain position, if he's LAG or TAG, if he's got a very high VPIP, etc etc. So where does it mention that on the graph? Besides, when you are playing live, you don't know the player and you don't carry Sharkscope with you.
Just like Dave, Dave and John did during their satellites, you need to study the player......... NOT look up a players graph....DOH

Yes sometimes I might look up a player, but only to know if he's a regular or not, which I will then put in my notes

PS. Your comment about me being "one of the few that can interpret them!" was a stupid azz comment
Sandy please stop trying to defend why you don't look up stats or why you hide your own! You don't need to. I'm not suggesting anyone should stop giving opinions either. I'm certainly not suggesting there is only one way to play as there are many.
I have obviously touched a nerve as you once again seem to be the definative answer on what comments are good or bad. You have had your say. Let people read the information for what it is! I didn't ask anyone to agree with my opinion or defend theirs.

 
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Sat Apr 14, 2012, 01:03 PM
(#14)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Poker is an information game and anything added is a bonus. While I disagree with your initial post Honu I also disagree with Sandtrap's last statement. I don't always use my 5 free searches on Sharkscope, mainly because you have to opt in on PS but tracking sites have helped me on many ocasions most recently on a reg who plays the same games as myself but varies his stakes up to $30. He's +$3k this year (I'm +$250).

I can adapt to him should I play him but in general I'll just avoid him. This information is +EV to me in itself.
 
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Sat Apr 14, 2012, 03:16 PM
(#15)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
Sandy please stop trying to defend why you don't look up stats or why you hide your own! You don't need to. I'm not suggesting anyone should stop giving opinions either. I'm certainly not suggesting there is only one way to play as there are many.
I have obviously touched a nerve as you once again seem to be the definative answer on what comments are good or bad. You have had your say. Let people read the information for what it is! I didn't ask anyone to agree with my opinion or defend theirs.

I was just answering your question
If you didn't want me to answer it, than why did you ask...."So let me ask you then do you not look up anyone's stats?"
DOH!!!!!!!!!


 
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Sat Apr 14, 2012, 03:42 PM
(#16)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Hopefully you are done now Sandy! Maybe there is another last word you need to add! Then we can move on to finding the best material to study!

 
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Sat Apr 14, 2012, 03:51 PM
(#17)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Let's see now??????????
Yap, one last one
You should let go of your EGO and admit when you're wrong

So now, you can go and study
 
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Sat Apr 14, 2012, 04:26 PM
(#18)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
I am in the agree/disagree camp i guess.

Is it possible to explain theory better than you can personally apply it?

It sure is look at me, I coach Tke baseball and crosscountry sking. Two sports i'm not great at.

I tend to look for an answer that makes some sense and is backed by some king of fact or supported in some way. Most "controversal" advice is usally challanged within 1 or two hours and opposing points of view are common.

I have to agree none of us should simply take advice at face value but would i never listern to player whos stats say he is not a lifetime winner - depends n the question i guess.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat Apr 14, 2012, 05:10 PM
(#19)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
Let's see now??????????
Yap, one last one
You should let go of your EGO and admit when you're wrong

So now, you can go and study
Grade I didn't say your theory isnt valuable whether you can apply it or not. The point is for people to focus on the best education.

Sandy you are right my opinion is wrong. Thank you for derailing yet another thread trying to prove how much you help people on here. Nice lame ass comment BTW!
Last word is yours! LOL DO IT!

 
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Sat Apr 14, 2012, 05:18 PM
(#20)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
may as well add an opinion or two,ok from what i have read and understand about this post.
does an opinion of a losing player count?

the answer is yes

does the advice of a losing player count?

the answer is yes to a less skilled player than them

should the opr rankings or any other rankings and stats carry any wait from the advice someone gives?

The answer is no, some players may have great skill but can not help to tilt,
some players may only want to play for fun and never be serious,does this mean they can not play?

The only really advice any player should ever listen to is thier own, other peoples opinions can only give you guide lines to improve and new theoretics to try,lol is that a word?

If we played the same and all had the same answers and then the game would be a stale mate,
the variance of poker players is what makes the game a game.

When a person brings something different is it wrong,no its hard to work out,and this is an edge.

Stats and rankings mean nothing at the table, a persons attitude does. Look at me for example, like i said i can win when i want to or lose when i want to,to me winning sometimes is not first place, but the rest of the challenge.
my stats are yoyoed,up and down,bad beats bad swings whatever any1 wants to call it,who cares i dont even use maths but still i get results when i feel like it,

I can give you the text book answer or i can give my jibberish,again depends if i can be arsed to tell u the truth.

nether the less bk to the point i think you are all wrong,work that one out lol its to hard to explain some of my thoughts on the game and the theorys i have,am i a losing player or am i a winning player,do i want to be a winning player or am i happy been a nobody, i dont know so would not expect any1 else to know,im just playing who really cares its the money mostly u all chase.
 

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