Home / Community / Forum / Poker Community / Live Game Sweats and Online Tournaments / Skill League /

Time bank folding is not a strategy

Old
Thumbs down
Time bank folding is not a strategy - Sun Apr 22, 2012, 05:27 PM
(#1)
meth0ds99's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
I was curious to find out how the player on the top of the Open Skill League (B0bbyTheFIsh) is playing.

So what do I see ? He's timing out EVERY hand on purpose (after he gets sit out he sits back in instantly) to let other players bust at the early stages of the tournament and thus avoid getting points taken from his total score.

This is beyond petty and I imagine very annoyng if you are at the same table with him.. I suggest to PSO staff to introduce some kind of penalty / warning system for this kind of behaviour.

Last edited by meth0ds99; Sun Apr 22, 2012 at 05:30 PM..
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 05:46 PM
(#2)
m.bisland's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,260
BronzeStar
Why dont you try it. You will find most people in the forum do this.
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 05:52 PM
(#3)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by meth0ds99 View Post
I was curious to find out how the player on the top of the Open Skill League (B0bbyTheFIsh) is playing.

So what do I see ? He's timing out EVERY hand on purpose (after he gets sit out he sits back in instantly) to let other players bust at the early stages of the tournament and thus avoid getting points taken from his total score.

This is beyond petty and I imagine very annoyng if you are at the same table with him.. I suggest to PSO staff to introduce some kind of penalty / warning system for this kind of behaviour.
Well done BobbytheFish

We all know this is necessary- due to the format/set -up etc. If we have to play the OSL (god forbid) or if we want to exploit the OSL then we find the best method to do so. When it works out well it can be profitable but it is my idea of hell.

it is still eminently more sensible and more poker savvy than just shoving any 2 cards as about 5k of the 10k players in any given OSL tourney will do.

If you are playing this format - you have to learn how to get results - bobby and many others know this - there is nothing here to discredit the players who are smart enough to play the required strategy to win.

Get with the programme - watch the BobFish and learn

Ed
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 05:54 PM
(#4)
meth0ds99's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by montimus85
And there's the primary problem of this league set-up. Players get rewarded for how long they can stall, not how well they can play poker. It's pathetic. Was on a table with pashich9704 the other night, and it was pretty piss-poor. EVERY hand timed out, and as soon as his status changed to "sitting out", he'd quickly change to "I'm back" and we go through it all over again. The strategy works, but where is the fun or SKILL in that?? People who *play* poker should be rewarded, not scum like this. Sad to say that the player mentioned is in the top ten. When does bad etiquette become cheating..?
Is this guy the only sane player left on this forum ?

"It's not cheating, or bad etiquette, it's using the tools you've been given to beat the system. The same basic skill applies to every tourney you will play, figure out the best way to exploit it, and go from there."

If the majority of players think like this it means this system is nothing more then a factory for future bumhunters and shortstackers at the 1c/2c tables.

And we all know that the spanish and russian players doing that already, need company.

Last edited by meth0ds99; Sun Apr 22, 2012 at 06:01 PM..
 
Old
Default
time clock - Sun Apr 22, 2012, 06:03 PM
(#5)
phoenix924's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 14
well said.....there is no skill in wasting time...but these leagues are famous for it.
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 06:16 PM
(#6)
meth0ds99's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Oh and btw PSO staff you could improve the format of this league and make skill matter more by increasing the number of starting chips to 3000 (that of a small buyin MTT)..

The fact that even play money sngs have 2000 chips starting stack says it all imo.
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 06:26 PM
(#7)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by meth0ds99 View Post
Oh and btw PSO staff you could improve the format of this league and make skill matter more by increasing the number of starting chips to 3000 (that of a small buyin MTT)..

The fact that even play money sngs have 2000 chips starting stack says it all imo.
OK - I can agree on one point - the format could be much improved - it has been discussed before.

But you still have to first apologise for your detrimental personal comments and then acknowledge that BobbytheFish is a much smarter player than the other thousands who play and those (like you perhaps?) who complain about the format and cannot seem prove their own talents within whatever format is offered.

I hope you can come up with the goods.

Ed
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 06:31 PM
(#8)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Same old complaints from the same old losers. And some new ones
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 06:52 PM
(#9)
meth0ds99's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdinFreeMan View Post
OK - I can agree on one point - the format could be much improved - it has been discussed before.

But you still have to first apologise for your detrimental personal comments and then acknowledge that BobbytheFish is a much smarter player than the other thousands who play and those (like you perhaps?) who complain about the format and cannot seem prove their own talents within whatever format is offered.

I hope you can come up with the goods.

Ed
You and your fellow british friend are so busy scraping the bottom of the barrell that you are missing a few key points.

1. You're taking yourself waaaay too seriously. Don't forget you are on a forum that's basically a guide for ABC poker..
2. 80% of the players who join are recreational players who like to gamble and have fun., *** deleted member insult JWK24***
3 The only reason I started playing is because my game is 6max cash and I thought this would be a fun way to learn MTT's. I was wrong

Last edited by JWK24; Sun Apr 22, 2012 at 07:02 PM..
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 06:57 PM
(#10)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Username: meth0ds99
Registration date: 04/06/2012
Gender: Male
Relationship status: Single
Current league rank: (Open) 3841 / 107771
Current league score: 1675.61
League prize level:
Blog: No
Posts in forum:
5

Need I say more?

Ed
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 07:24 PM
(#11)
meth0ds99's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Good job Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

My registration date is the same as yours but on 2+2 where i regulary post and reply in the microstakes hand analysis threads..

Relationship status: Unedited. Sorry for me it's a poker forum not facebook.

Posts in forum: 5 Because naive as I am I thought this topic would change some things for the better.I was wrong.

P.S. Sorry JWK24 if I've broken the TOS. It won't happen again. I promise to leave these people and their timebanks to live happily ever after
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 07:36 PM
(#12)
Stakehorse75's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 865
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
Same old complaints from the same old losers. And some new ones
Same old "Peanut Gallery" putting new players down, simply because they don't understand, not very community, instead of posting something like what Ed said.

Methods, take some time to look through the forum, and you'll find out why the top players are playing like this. When we play against huge fields, where, during the first hour, you see 7/10 of the field drop out by playing almost AnyTwoCards more agressive than UFC fights.

It gets us past the "bingo" stage, and after this period is when you start seeing the level of players start improviing. Yes, there are still some pretty shotty players, as it never gets rid of all of the LAGs/Donks/ outright Maniacs, but at the same time, you still see the level of play improving over the course of the tournament.

This may not be the answer you were looking for, but by aiming your negativity towards players like BObby, I think you're in for some negative feedback. BObby has been here, he knows how to score, thats why hes there, instead of running people down, why not look at the whole picture as why he does good, and perhaps take in to consideration the possibility of playing like him, after all, if we can't beat em', lets join them, and if you're right, you should be at the top of the scoreboard by the middle of May, or you will see that just by playing the clock doesn't get you there.

PSO is a resource, use it, the best live trainers(Dave, Frosty), the archive vids, articles from top pros. This is all basically free, it isn't a coaching site that charges $60/month, like 1 I was paying for before the move to PokerStars.

STAKEHORSE- FOR A BETTER COMMUNITY.

Last edited by Stakehorse75; Sun Apr 22, 2012 at 07:56 PM..
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 07:44 PM
(#13)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by meth0ds99 View Post
Good job Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

My registration date is the same as yours but on 2+2 where i regulary post and reply in the microstakes hand analysis threads..

Relationship status: Unedited. Sorry for me it's a poker forum not facebook.

Posts in forum: 5 Because naive as I am I thought this topic would change some things for the better.I was wrong.

P.S. Sorry JWK24 if I've broken the TOS. It won't happen again. I promise to leave these people and their timebanks to live happily ever after
Now I have to unofficially welcome you to the forums, and say I am quite impressed by your knowledge of iconic Scottish writers.

Also - we all break the TOS on a regular basis. It's a badge of honour thing.

Changing things for the better? We try - its a long haul and don't expect immediate results.

You may well not want to waste your time here - but as me and my British and other 'friends' know, there is a lot of good value here - either through exploiting the added value of the Leagues or just gaining knowledge and insight from the trainers, regulars and general good stuff here.

Your opening shots here, detrimental comments to a reg were uncalled for, naive and of no value - but maybe you have something to offer and could benefit yourself and others from becoming a regular member of the community.

And maybe you could win the OSL. I tried many times and failed - but I didn't disparage those who did.

Ed
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 07:49 PM
(#14)
joker41673's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,850
hi meth,
while i can agree with the monotony of waiting for someone to time out every hand i have to admit that it is the best tactic for the first 3rd or half of the game. Just no way around it really. If you can make positive points without risk then why chance it just for a few chips? Just wait it out like the others and save the poker for closer to the bubble.

The best question here is what do you play the league for? The money for the tourney or the money for the end of the month. Are you playing to waste time or are you in need of the possible bankroll you could build?

I ask these things because when i started here i had gripes about the league game but found out early on that nothing will change and i would have to adapt. After i got a bankroll started and was building it regularly i didn't need to play the league for the prize and instead played to try new tactics or to see how well my reads are by putting my opponent on a hand then call him down to see if i was right. So it was more of a play ground for me when i was last able to play. (American)

So... What do you play the league for?

 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 07:51 PM
(#15)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Meth0ds99!

Per your request, I've changed the title.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 08:01 PM
(#16)
meth0ds99's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
I'm sorry for insulting B0bby in the title.. At the moment I thought he was the only one doing it. FWIW I asked JWK24 to change the title. As for the rest of it I stand by every word.

The "It gets us past the "bingo"" stage statement is ridiculous. After you survive the initial shove fest you have what 10-15 bb ? And it's your turn to shove or fold and guess what ? It's still bingo.

On the other hand if you play hands like QJ, KJ, QT, KT, AT for a 2 x / 3 x raise early you can easily stack opponents with lower kickers.The same thing with limping behind small pocket pairs and suited aces and kings. To be clear i'm talking about the first three blind levels in late position.

Thank You JWK.

Last edited by meth0ds99; Sun Apr 22, 2012 at 08:08 PM..
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 08:09 PM
(#17)
Stakehorse75's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 865
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdinFreeMan View Post
Now I have to unofficially welcome you to the forums, and say I am quite impressed by your knowledge of iconic Scottish writers.

Also - we all break the TOS on a regular basis. It's a badge of honour thing.

Changing things for the better? We try - its a long haul and don't expect immediate results.

You may well not want to waste your time here - but as me and my British and other 'friends' know, there is a lot of good value here - either through exploiting the added value of the Leagues or just gaining knowledge and insight from the trainers, regulars and general good stuff here.

Your opening shots here, detrimental comments to a reg were uncalled for, naive and of no value - but maybe you have something to offer and could benefit yourself and others from becoming a regular member of the community.

And maybe you could win the OSL. I tried many times and failed - but I didn't disparage those who did.

Ed
hey Ed, Come on, its not that impressive, Sir Conan Doyle is a very well published Author, it would have impressed me more if he'd have mentioned someone like William Glen, or Robert Burns the writer of "Auld Lang Syne"
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 08:10 PM
(#18)
joker41673's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by meth0ds99 View Post
I'm sorry for insulting B0bby in the title.. At the moment I thought he was the only one doing it. FWIW I asked JWK24 to change the title. As for the rest of it I stand by every word.

The "It gets us past the "bingo"" stage statement is ridiculous. After you survive the initial shove fest you have what 10-15 bb ? And it's your turn to shove or fold and guess what ? It's still bingo.

On the other hand if you play hands like QJ, KJ, QT, KT, AT early you can easily stack opponents with lower kickers.The same thing with limping behind small pocket pairs and suited aces and kings. To be clear i'm talking about the tirst three blind levels.
But you're positive points by that time so even getting knocked out there you are still making progress on the leader board.

That's a good strategy but more suited for regular tourneys and the league games are the farthest from that. Still can be used effectively but you need to minimize your risk in the early stage till you are more confident of your being ahead of your opponent.

 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 08:12 PM
(#19)
Stakehorse75's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 865
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by meth0ds99 View Post
I'm sorry for insulting B0bby in the title.. At the moment I thought he was the only one doing it. FWIW I asked JWK24 to change the title. As for the rest of it I stand by every word.

The "It gets us past the "bingo"" stage statement is ridiculous. After you survive the initial shove fest you have what 10-15 bb ? And it's your turn to shove or fold and guess what ? It's still bingo.

On the other hand if you play hands like QJ, KJ, QT, KT, AT for a 2 x / 3 x raise early you can easily stack opponents with lower kickers.The same thing with limping behind small pocket pairs and suited aces and kings. To be clear i'm talking about the first three blind levels in late position.

Thank You JWK.
You mean and be completely dominated by someone with better holdings, like AA,AK, KK, QQ, or KQ? Ready to slow play it until you're ready to commit?

Take a look at Jokers post, it has valid points. In regular tournies you don't lose points by going out in 4800/10,000, you lose you buy in, but no points. In this league, you lose points for going out early.

Like joker says, by the time you have a SS, you're almost gtd points, not many, but it's positive points. We aren't playing for the $10, we're playing thought out poker, to cash out in the monthly standings, by using all the tools we are given, including our time clocks. Rarely do you see these plays in normal tourneys, and if you see us playing in $$ tourneys, these players do have game, and they're ready to use it.

Last edited by Stakehorse75; Sun Apr 22, 2012 at 08:36 PM..
 
Old
Default
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 08:20 PM
(#20)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by meth0ds99 View Post
I'm sorry for insulting B0bby in the title.. At the moment I thought he was the only one doing it. FWIW I asked JWK24 to change the title. As for the rest of it I stand by every word.

The "It gets us past the "bingo"" stage statement is ridiculous. After you survive the initial shove fest you have what 10-15 bb ? And it's your turn to shove or fold and guess what ? It's still bingo.

On the other hand if you play hands like QJ, KJ, QT, KT, AT early you can easily stack opponents with lower kickers.The same thing with limping behind small pocket pairs and suited aces and kings. To be clear i'm talking about the tirst three blind levels.
The secret here though - (well everyone knows so it is no secret) - is the function of the points scoring system, the extreme value of survival, and the fast attrition rate. In the first orbit or so 1000 players bust. In the first hour 75-80% bust.

The big monthly prizes go to those who play the most games and last longest most often, with a few seriously deep runs. Volume is necessary and 'deep' runs (top 15-20%) are easily possible due to the format, and a few very deep runs (top 5-10%) make the difference at the top end of the league.

It is a horrible way to play poker but it brings 100,000+ players in each month and a select few exploit it to win hundreds of dollars from what are essentially freerolls.

I built up $300 from scratch through these (over 18 months or so) and have moved on, but I totally understand players exploiting these games, and regulars using them as added value.

I would imagine for the regs that exploit them they are a simple side game. Whilst playing cash tables, STTs, MTTs it is easy to freeroll a bonus by time-out/folding in the OSL.

Poker is all about exploiting the game format - OSL is a quirk that has special circumstances - the only place I have ever folded AA preflop - (first hand of the tourney v 3all-ins before me).

Those who get through it each month - and those who get the top 10-20 prizes deserve it.

Ed
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com