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I think the format is broken, here is why.

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I think the format is broken, here is why. - Tue Apr 24, 2012, 06:48 AM
(#1)
kondor101's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 4
The format is broken, because you can, if you wish, use software to register for every single game of the open, and then time bank every single hand. While you are fast asleep in bed.

Tableninja comes to mind.

http://faq.holdemmanager.com/questio...8TableNinja%29

and

http://tableninja.com/itembyitemdoc.php?tab=Annoyances

So you see, it is a broken format open to abuse by people who use software such as this. I am not saying that people are doing this in every single open league match, but it is possible. And lets face it, not many people think that it is possible to sit there all day in everymatch everyday clicking I am back buttons without ever sleeping.

Do any of you think people are doing this?

Do you not think it would be easy to fix by limiting people to 50 or 60 tickets a month?

Surely allowing people to play so many matches is asking for software abuse.

Last edited by kondor101; Tue Apr 24, 2012 at 06:51 AM..
 
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Tue Apr 24, 2012, 08:05 AM
(#2)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,226
BronzeStar
I see this being useful for a week, maybe less. After that you'll probably be scoring negative points in most games.
 
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Tue Apr 24, 2012, 08:23 AM
(#3)
kondor101's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 4
Darkman, If whilst someone slept they used this to reg and play (time banking) everyhand. When they wake up if they are still in any games they take over. It is very possible, certainly more possible than someone playing every game of the day every day of the month.
 
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Tue Apr 24, 2012, 08:34 AM
(#4)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,226
BronzeStar
They'll last around an hour. And if their intention is to set the alarm clock to enable them to play from that point they will rarely last any more than another 10 minutes.

Like I said. A useful tool for the dedicated in week one. But you need far more than the ability to register and fold after that.
 
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I agree - Tue Apr 24, 2012, 10:36 AM
(#5)
CHILLI 2 U's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 395
ChromeStar
I think everyone should be given 30 league tickets a month to use when they see fit or not, just with those limitations alone, each and every ticket and tournament becomes a thing of value. The tournaments then become less of the donkfest they are , and become much more attactive to play in . I can't put in to words what the thought of SKILL LEAGUE means to me from where it all started to what it is now . The investment of time, effort, and money that has gone in to this it should be the best thought of league on the planet, not spoken about as a joke or with the negativity that it is.

Just sayin....................
 
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Tue Apr 24, 2012, 12:24 PM
(#6)
corvids's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 28
BronzeStar
I think this is very possible and the reason i think so is because i play in the open regularly. I live on the west coast and play in the 9 30 pm game and it is very common to be seated at a table where half or more then half of the players are sitters,most of them are eastern europeans and most of them sit for the whole game.
 
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Tue Apr 24, 2012, 12:44 PM
(#7)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by corvids View Post
I think this is very possible and the reason i think so is because i play in the open regularly. I live on the west coast and play in the 9 30 pm game and it is very common to be seated at a table where half or more then half of the players are sitters,most of them are eastern europeans and most of them sit for the whole game.
Hello.

What Darkman is getting at is that since the score you receive for each MTT you play is partially based upon your START SCORE for the event, after reaching a certain score in the league, pure volume will no longer allow you to advance in score.

Mass sign up's, time banking and sitting out will only take you so far, and once a "plateau score" is reached, further advancement without actually playing will be impossible.

-JDean


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Tue Apr 24, 2012, 02:26 PM
(#8)
mcgameboy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 119
There is absolutely no way that "tableninja-ing" your way to Open League glory will work.

Based on my own experience this month, the furthest I have got in an Open League tourny without winning a single pot in the tourny was 1036th. To get that far, I had the following factors on my side...slow players, very few allins, lots of pots going to the river, timely table breaks, timely blind skips, posting blinds just before the end of a level as opposed to the start of the next level (that enables you to get a handful of extra antes to help prolong your tournament life).

I've also played games where I busted before I got to ITM (1440th in a 10,000 player tourny). This is despite timing out every hand and having a VPIP of ZERO chips (ie not even playing a pot from any of my small blind hands). On one occasion, I finished 1726th. This was purely down to the speed of play at the table (something that is completely out of my control once I time out and fold).

If you are challenging for a top spot in Open League towards the end of the month, 1726th is simply not going to get the job done. Neither for that matter is 1036th. Both those would result in NEGATIVE points scores. Therefore making the "tableninja while you sleep" strategy ineffective.

There is one very key thing that table ninja prevents a player from doing...making that "pot odds dictated" call with junk. Like when the blinds are 125/250 ante 25 and you have 280 chips left and you are in the BB next hand. With tableninja, your hand would be folded and you would be left with 5 chips. If you were actually at the table, are you seriously going to fold for 5 chips just to last one hand longer? If you call and hit a luckout, you would be on at least 800 chips, which is more than enough to last one more circuit. With tableninja, your hand gets folded you are anted allin next hand with just 5 chips and even if you win the next hand, you will be anted allin again just two hands later.

And of course, tableninja prevents you from taking advantage of another very key ingredient for Open League success...the free big blind special. In a game yesterday I was dealt 63off in the BB (blinds 30/60) . I got to see a free flop of 353. And a free turn...the case 3. And a free river which was a J. I shoved in the hope that a J would call me....and I got my wish. 3k pot for me thank you very much. With tableninja, I would have AT BEST won a pot of 240 and only IF no one bets the river.
I went on to finish in the Top 500 on the back of that ONE pot. With tableninja, I would have been lucky to scrape an ITM finish. Which I may add, doesn't even give you a positive score when you are at 2400 points plus like I am. You need to be somewhere around 1300th to break even.

And finally, one other thing tableninja prevents you from doing. Both the blinds sitting out. You are on the button. It is folded round to you. Easy chips...if you are there. Just click call. Not with tableninja. The BB instead gets a walk and you win nothing.

As Darkman said, it can be a useful tool. But it also has its drawbacks. And I feel that the drawbacks significantly outweigh the advantages.

And as JDean said, there is a "plateau score" that once reached, simply cannot be improved upon by use of tableninja alone.

And finally, if the tableninja strategy did work, don't you think that one person would have employed this strategy by now given that this league has been around for quite some time?
 
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Tue Apr 24, 2012, 08:46 PM
(#9)
Herkstwin's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 255
All this goes back to the issue of players being in every game, four hours apart, for a month. It boggles my mind that someone would bother to sit at their computer playing that many tournaments and that many hours just to win/earn a maximum of $1500. Assuming the player sits only 2 hours at each tourney, that is 12 hours per day, and 360 hours in 30 days. That works out to just over $4 per hour. My advice to this player - "Don't give up your day job!"

I favour the idea of limiting the number of tickets. Sitting and clocking does work to a degree, but a patient player can watch for the monster hands and double or triple up, giving them a few more orbits and improving their standing. I have played card dead in some tourneys and folded every hand - not one winner!! But, with the help of the clock I have managed to pull down a few positive points. And this is from a position between 1000 - 2000.

Herk
 
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Wed Apr 25, 2012, 06:24 PM
(#10)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,607
how do you time bank if you are alseep?


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Just another thought - Wed Apr 25, 2012, 07:28 PM
(#11)
CHILLI 2 U's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 395
ChromeStar
After awhile sit outs do not benefit from attaining a higher score that is correct, in the meantime we are sometimes playing at tables where there are only 3 or 4 people sitting in, in other words it is shorthanded play and where other tables are fighting over pots of 200 400 chips etc you are dealing with 20 or 40 and the blinds going up. It is frustrating and its not fair play for everyone . Just another reason games should be limited and made more valuable.
 
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Wed Apr 25, 2012, 07:36 PM
(#12)
BUZZLIYEAR's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 217
dark man has it bang on he plays the league nows how it works has it down to a tea as for 30 tickets Chillie per month thats never going to happen its in the free rolls day wont Change it.
 
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Thu May 10, 2012, 10:58 PM
(#13)
tally49's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 9
Would limiting play to one tournement per day have a positive or negative effect? I am a New Zealand player working for a living and find it impossible to play more than one OS a day. One tournement per day might also encourage higher standard of play...Just a thought
 
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Fri May 11, 2012, 02:27 AM
(#14)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by tally49 View Post
Would limiting play to one tournement per day have a positive or negative effect? I am a New Zealand player working for a living and find it impossible to play more than one OS a day. One tournement per day might also encourage higher standard of play...Just a thought
Hi tally49,

The flaw here tally is that you're operating under the assumption that more than 90% (I'm probably being wildly charitable with that number...) of the fields would not be made up of ATC shoving droolers jumping in for the chance of a free nickel.

The leagues are what they are and serve the purpose that they are meant to serve. Stars is NOT going to change anything in them unless they see it as being beneficial to their bottom line.They certainly are not going to trip over themselves to encourage players to play LESS poker.

It's incumbent on you,the players, to discern if any possible monies won are worth the time suck involved and then to formulate and execute a plan of action to do so.

Interestingly you WILL find that some of these skills WILL translate beyond the mama's nest protection of the freeroll leagues.

Again,discerning when and if any number of those skills/lessons translate to whatever particular game you may be playing at a given time is up to you each to figure out.

They'll never be able to come up with a system that will be fair to everyone, If they limit play for the players who can't grind 100 games plus to benefit then the players who can play that many will go nuts.

Just do what you can that makes it as fun and as profitable as you can for yourself and your parameters.

Good fortune.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Fri May 11, 2012 at 02:32 AM..
 
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Fri May 11, 2012, 02:36 AM
(#15)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
As to the OP and his suggestion of a flaw...

...two words...

...scoring throttles (or chokes if you prefer).

They make your scenario and concerns impossible.
 
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Fri May 11, 2012, 06:13 AM
(#16)
tally49's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 9
Thanks for the heads up and your thoughts. Much appreciated
 
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Fri May 11, 2012, 06:24 AM
(#17)
ah309's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 7
Played my second tourney of this today - literally only played 3 hands - AK, QQ (both double ups), and AA when the field was down to 1100 or so. 15bb shove from UTG+1 and got 3 callers - fecking 69o beats me with a flopped straight. I wish the donks would at least have SOME preflop knowledge. Their lack of knowledge everywhere else is just fine though. Should be positive points anyway... still waiting on the tourney ending.
 
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Fri May 11, 2012, 06:34 AM
(#18)
Stakehorse75's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 865
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkstwin View Post
All this goes back to the issue of players being in every game, four hours apart, for a month. It boggles my mind that someone would bother to sit at their computer playing that many tournaments and that many hours just to win/earn a maximum of $1500. Assuming the player sits only 2 hours at each tourney, that is 12 hours per day, and 360 hours in 30 days. That works out to just over $4 per hour. My advice to this player - "Don't give up your day job!"

I favour the idea of limiting the number of tickets. Sitting and clocking does work to a degree, but a patient player can watch for the monster hands and double or triple up, giving them a few more orbits and improving their standing. I have played card dead in some tourneys and folded every hand - not one winner!! But, with the help of the clock I have managed to pull down a few positive points. And this is from a position between 1000 - 2000.

Herk
Look at some of the Eastern European Countries, $1500 US to them is more than some good jobs.
 
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Fri May 11, 2012, 06:39 AM
(#19)
PSOGefallener's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 546
Thanks a lot for your feedback guys, I will forward it accordingly.

Regards


Team PokerSchoolOnline - Christopher

 
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Fri May 11, 2012, 12:30 PM
(#20)
Henry Minute's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 48
Don't ya just hate it when that happens?

I thought I was the only one it happened to.
 

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