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Calculating rake as a %

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Calculating rake as a % - Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:02 AM
(#1)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Hi not sure where to put this but I want to work out how much rake is charged in each tournament as a percentage.

Is my maths correct?

$1.50 STT charge 21 cents rake so (21/ 1.29) * 100 gives me 16.2%.

I'm looking to create a quick glance table for working out VPP's etc. and I want to add the percentage to the table.
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:50 AM
(#2)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,019
(Community Coordinator)
*** Moved ***

Hi Ovalman,

There is some info here on how rake is calculated for ring games.

I do not know how the rake is worked out as percentages for Tournaments but I'll try to find some info for you and post back when I have more details.

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:09 AM
(#3)
Don B. Cilly's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 394
They're usually around 10%. Sunday Million, under ($15 for $200 in prize pool), Storm exact ($1 for $10), etc. Ones I play (45ers), 23 cents in pool, two rake, so just under.

So it looks like $1.50 ST sngs are raked a bit more, yes. But the $3.50 STs, $3.30 in pool, .20 in rake, way less than 10%, so go figure :)
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:35 AM
(#4)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
It's closer to 16.3%

That's horrendous. Note to self. NEVER play one of these.
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 12:11 PM
(#5)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
My maths is correct (got it confirmed on another forum)

$1.50 regular is 16.2%
$1.50 turbo is 13.6%
$3.50 regular is 11.8%
$3.50 turbo is 9.7%
$7.00 regular is 9.5%
$7.00 turbo is 8%
$15 regular is 8.7%
$15 turbo is 7.7%
$30regular is 8.7%
$30 turbo is 7.7%
$60 turbo is 7.7%
$100 turbo is 7.2%

I'm not knocking 16% because many other sites are charging 20% for micro stakes but it does show how hard rake eats into your profits at micro stakes. If you know your overall ROI in a decent sample it may be more beneficial moving up a level where the standard might be a little higher but it might be offset by lower rake.
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 12:22 PM
(#6)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
It's $0.21 on $1.50 (not $1.29), therefore 14%
They take .21 on the 1.50

Personally, I don't care about the rake, it's the bottom line that counts, PROFIT
I don't play those, but maybe I should
Most good players might not touch those high rake games, therefore leaving the games to the fishes and donkeys. So why not take advantage of it?

P.S. There's a HUGE rake on cigarettes, but people still smoke

P.P.S. I just saw your numbers Ovalman, you'll need to change them, still, it's very revealing
 
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$3.50 has different formats - Mon Apr 30, 2012, 12:25 PM
(#7)
king_spadez1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don B. Cilly View Post
So it looks like $1.50 ST sngs are raked a bit more, yes. But the $3.50 STs, $3.30 in pool, .20 in rake, way less than 10%, so go figure
The $3.50 format that Don refers to is a 'Turbo Knockout' game.

The regular format $3.50 SNG STT 9 MAN game that compares to the same type $1.50 game has a 39-cent rake. The rake % for the $3.50 game is around 12.5% compared to its sister game of $1.50, which is 16.3%.

The rake is still much cheaper than a 'live' rake. I recently played a MTT (83 entries) Turbo in Atlantic City that was $150 + $30. The rake 'live' was 20% compared to the $60 buy-in MTT 45 MAN Turbo and 180 MAN Turbo 'on-line', which are only 8.6%; on-line games also save on expenses.

Even though the average on-line player is getting better, if you can hold you own against a given buy-in level, the rake isn't bad; as an added bonus, the rakeback on-line is better than the comps at a casino.
.


"May the cards be with you!"
 
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Email Notification - Mon Apr 30, 2012, 12:29 PM
(#8)
king_spadez1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Adding myself to the email notification list.
.


"May the cards be with you!"
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 12:42 PM
(#9)
Don B. Cilly's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 394
Way I see it, rake on the entry fee still beats the pumpkins out of rake on every single hand you see a flop on. Last cash ring game I played, I got so pissed off with splitting the pot four hands in a row... well, four pots in a row I got involved with, you know, rake makes more than you do and you haven't even lost it, I gave up on them :)
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 01:13 PM
(#10)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
It's $0.21 on $1.50 (not $1.29), therefore 14%
They take .21 on the 1.50

Personally, I don't care about the rake, it's the bottom line that counts, PROFIT
I don't play those, but maybe I should
Most good players might not touch those high rake games, therefore leaving the games to the fishes and donkeys. So why not take advantage of it?

P.S. There's a HUGE rake on cigarettes, but people still smoke

P.P.S. I just saw your numbers Ovalman, you'll need to change them, still, it's very revealing
I hope you're better with odds and outs
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 02:55 PM
(#11)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
I hope you're better with odds and outs
?????
I see you're better at 1 liner comments than explanations
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 03:44 PM
(#12)
bearxing's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 499
The rake is also lower on the 45+ man SNGs as you are not contributing to the battle of the planets prize pool.
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 03:56 PM
(#13)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I only gave stats for the 6 man Limit STT's I play, I didn't check any other games.
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 04:52 PM
(#14)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
It's $0.21 on $1.50 (not $1.29), therefore 14%
They take .21 on the 1.50

Personally, I don't care about the rake, it's the bottom line that counts, PROFIT
I don't play those, but maybe I should
Most good players might not touch those high rake games, therefore leaving the games to the fishes and donkeys. So why not take advantage of it?

P.S. There's a HUGE rake on cigarettes, but people still smoke

P.P.S. I just saw your numbers Ovalman, you'll need to change them, still, it's very revealing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
I hope you're better with odds and outs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
?????
I see you're better at 1 liner comments than explanations

Dman,it's 14%.

.21/1.50 = 0.14

You take the .21 from the whole--the $1.50,not from the remainder--the $1.29,as you must be doing to arrive at 16.3%.

If you were to calculate what percentage 3 is of 10,for instance would you divide 3 by 10 thus arriving at 30%,the correct answer or subtract 3 from 10 and then divide it by the remainder,7,thus arriving at roughly 43%,most definitely the incorrect answer.

That's the same formula you and oval are using to arrive at .21 being 16% and change of $1.50.

Hope that helps.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Mon Apr 30, 2012 at 05:02 PM..
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 07:05 PM
(#15)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Sand, Mox. You know I luv you guys. But before you carry on you really should forget about poker and concentrate on a bit of basic math.

The game fee is $1.50. $1.29 goes in the pot, 21c is the rake. Divide the 21c by 1% of what goes in the pot ($0.129c) and the rake (registration fee) is 16.279%.

Now I'm sure you could argue many a point with me and it would invariably come down to a matter of opinion, but math is math
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 07:54 PM
(#16)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
*SIGH*

The next time you reg in something that charges a rake fee for entering the tournament go to your cashiers box before and after you register. Did they charge you the amount that it says,or an amount that subtracts the rake from the equation?

You are paying $1.50 to enter the tournament/SNG. $1.50.

$1.29 goes in the prize pool.$0.21 goes in the kick for Stars as the rake. $1.29 + $0.21 = $1.50.

The entire outlay is $1.50. To discover how much of that is being set aside for the prize pool and how much is being set aside for the rake you divide each amount by the WHOLE,not by the REMAINDER.

Here,let's use your formula for a rounder set of numbers. Say we enter a $10.00 event and the rake is $1.00. So we then take $1.00 and divide it by 1% of the remaining $9.00,correct? That would come to 11.11%,yes?

Dman,are you really going to try and tell me that 1 is 11.11% of 10?

Because I think at first blush,without having to whip out a calculator,paper and pencil,or abacus most everyone here would be able to quickly surmise that taking $1 away from a $10 buy-in equals a 10% rake fee.
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:26 PM
(#17)
shirshot's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 665
If you go to the store and buy $9.00 worth of goods but it cost you $10.00 how much tax are you
paying?
 
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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:08 PM
(#18)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,284
11.11111111....% - I went to 8 decimal places and couldn't get $10.

 
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Tue May 01, 2012, 01:20 PM
(#19)
PSVIPRep's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 56
Hi guys,

I'm happy to try to field any rake-related questions, although my High School calculus days are well behind me at this point.

Both arguments are valid here, depending on if you want to measure the percentage of rake in relation to the buy-in or in relation to prizepool + rake. I think of rake in terms of the buy-in, so if the tournament is a $2.50 buy-in with $0.50 going to rake, the rake is 25% and not 20%.

Let me know if this makes sense or if you have further questions.


PokerStars VIP Coordinator - Dylan
 
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Tue May 01, 2012, 02:23 PM
(#20)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSVIPRep View Post
Hi guys,

I'm happy to try to field any rake-related questions, although my High School calculus days are well behind me at this point.

Both arguments are valid here, depending on if you want to measure the percentage of rake in relation to the buy-in or in relation to prizepool + rake. I think of rake in terms of the buy-in, so if the tournament is a $2.50 buy-in with $0.50 going to rake, the rake is 25% and not 20%.

Let me know if this makes sense or if you have further questions.
Pointless you bringing logic to the argument. Mox says it's 20% and won't be swayed. I think it's a bit like when they say "I could care less". They actually mean they couldn't care less. It must be a North American thing. I'm beginning to understand how easy they found it to bastardise our language

Hope you're not still having to complete tax returns Mox. The IRS could give you a nasty surprise one day
 

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