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Calling shoves

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Calling shoves - Thu May 03, 2012, 12:23 PM
(#1)
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Hi, at some point of the tournaments, some players start getting short, and then, they start going all-in. My question here is, what influences your decision if you call or not the shoves ? And how loose you call them ?
One thing is for sure, the shorter they are, the looser you should call. But when it is the point when it gets profitable to call with any two cards ( even 72o ) ?
And of course, we must consider if there are more people behind still to call their shove.

So, I wanted to know what influences you guys to make the decision to call or fold ( or even raise all-in if there is more players behind to call ).

Thanks guys
 
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Thu May 03, 2012, 01:12 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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Hi fp_boss77!

Here's what plays into my thought process for cash tournies (leagues and sattys are different animals).....

The first thing is that for this type of situation, having pokerstove and knowing how to range the opponent is something that is very important here.

The first thing that I'll do is to range the opponent based on their chip stack and how they've been playing. The next thing is to use pokerstove to see how my hand plays against the opp's range. If I have more hand equity than what I'd have to put into the pot to call, then I'lll call. If not, then I'll fold.
Where I'll shove over them, is when I know that my hand plays very favorably against the short-stack and I want to isolate that player. In doing so, I want to be pretty certain that the others behind me will fold... of if I think they will call, then my hand has to have enough equity in the multi-way hand to warrant the call.

The key is to use pokerstove to start to learn some of the hand equity numbers vs various ranges and this is something that you can play with and learn while not being in an actual tourney.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu May 03, 2012, 05:22 PM
(#3)
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Hey JWK24

Thanks for the advice man, Poker Stove is a great tool. I'll use it to analyze the hands.
 
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Fri May 04, 2012, 02:06 AM
(#4)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Hi fp_boss77!

One thing to add to JWK's answer is that whilst the key to taking down any MTT/SNG may be having all the chips at the end there are certain points in any multi table tournament when the chips you HAVE are more important than the chips you can GAIN and vice versa.

Brushing up on game theory and independent chip model theories can help you learn how to recognize when each of these times are in play and how they can shift depending on several factors (effective stack sizes,deepness vs the blinds/antes,where the big,small and equal stacks in relation to our stack are around the table...many factors).

It's learning subtleties like this that make poker such a fascinating ongoing learning process.

GL at the tables!
 
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Fri May 04, 2012, 06:14 AM
(#5)
Henry Minute's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Hi fp_boss77!

Here's what plays into my thought process for cash tournies (leagues and sattys are different animals).....

The first thing is that for this type of situation, having pokerstove and knowing how to range the opponent is something that is very important here.

The first thing that I'll do is to range the opponent based on their chip stack and how they've been playing. The next thing is to use pokerstove to see how my hand plays against the opp's range. If I have more hand equity than what I'd have to put into the pot to call, then I'lll call. If not, then I'll fold.
Where I'll shove over them, is when I know that my hand plays very favorably against the short-stack and I want to isolate that player. In doing so, I want to be pretty certain that the others behind me will fold... of if I think they will call, then my hand has to have enough equity in the multi-way hand to warrant the call.

The key is to use pokerstove to start to learn some of the hand equity numbers vs various ranges and this is something that you can play with and learn while not being in an actual tourney.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)
All good advice John, particularly about pokerstove, which I have been using since I became aware of it from here on PSO.

During my ramblings around the interwebs I encountered 'Equilab' on pokerstrategy. It appears to my untutored eye to be an equivalent application, although there are some minor differences, but with a slightly more 'modern' interface. It also has some additional functionality which I am not yet competent to use.

I was wondering if you, or anyone else, were aware of it and if so what you thought of it.
 
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Fri May 04, 2012, 10:21 AM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Henry!

I've never used nor looked into that program (but I did find it on the PS allowed software list).

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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