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wont be bluffing this player again

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wont be bluffing this player again - Tue May 08, 2012, 04:05 AM
(#1)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
never come across gim before , but he was limping with any hand he played . This was a Skill league tourney .

Poker Stars Freeroll No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t80/t160 Blinds + t15 - 9 players - View hand 1756969
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: t2919 M = 7.78
BTN: t585 M = 1.56
SB: t3015 M = 8.04
Hero (BB): t2965 M = 7.91
UTG: t2141 M = 5.71
UTG+1: t7313 M = 19.50
UTG+2: t2595 M = 6.92
MP1: t4134 M = 11.02
MP2: t2674 M = 7.13

Pre Flop: (t375) Hero is BB with 9 :diamond: T :diamond:
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t160, 4 folds, SB calls t80, Hero checks

Flop: (t615) J :heart: Q :club: 5 :diamond: (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 bets t320, SB folds, Hero raises to t960, UTG+2 calls t640

Turn: (t2535) T :club: (2 players)
Hero bets t1830 all in, UTG+2 calls t1460 all in

River: (t5455) A :heart: (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: t5455
Hero shows 9 :diamond: T :diamond: (a pair of Tens)
UTG+2 shows K :diamond: J :spade: (a straight, Ten to Ace)
UTG+2 wins t5455


I think his call to my reraise was abit spurious , given it was an unraised pot , and how he thinks he can call the shove on the turn is beyond me .



then he plays this a few hands later

Poker Stars Freeroll No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds + t20 - 9 players - View hand 1756971
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+2: t2889 M = 6.02
MP1: t1980 M = 4.12
MP2: t3065 M = 6.39
CO: t4663 M = 9.71
BTN: t1391 M = 2.90
SB: t6763 M = 14.09
BB: t5480 M = 11.42
UTG: t4044 M = 8.43
UTG+1: t4584 M = 9.55

Pre Flop: (t480)
5 folds, CO raises to t440, 1 fold, SB calls t340, BB calls t240

Flop: (t1500) T :heart: 2 :heart: 3 :club: (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO bets t800, SB folds, BB calls t800

Turn: (t3100) 5 :club: (2 players)
BB checks, CO bets t1860, BB calls t1860

River: (t6820) J :spade: (2 players)
BB checks, CO bets t1543 all in, BB calls t1543

Final Pot: t9906
CO shows T :club: T :diamond: (three of a kind, Tens)
BB shows K :heart: J :heart: (a pair of Jacks)
CO wins t9906


any thoughts on either hand are welcome .
 
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Tue May 08, 2012, 05:44 AM
(#2)
Sjekkkk's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 141
if this guy is limping in any hand you can already know before you raise that he will call anyway because he is a newb.
and a newb who bets the flop is even more dangerous, I'd never ever ever ever ever semibluff a guy who doesnt fold anyway, you are basically giving yourself improper odds to draw.

It is not your villain who was the donkey it was you who tried to bluff a donkey.
 
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Tue May 08, 2012, 07:23 AM
(#3)
Henry Minute's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 48
There is a post that will help you to use the PokerStars Hand Replayer here. This starts in-game to get the hand history but you can get it from wherever you have the PS client set to save yours.
 
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Tue May 08, 2012, 10:24 AM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Frasier!

Hand 1:

Preflop, with 9Ts in the BB, I want to be seeing the flop for free as it's a hand with potential.

The flop gives me the low end of an OESD and the opp bets just over 1/2 pot with two overcards on the board. To call, I have to put 320 chips into a pot that will be 1255 (25.5%). I have 8 outs, so my hand equity is 16% to the turn and 32% to the river.
Here's where a read on the opp will come into play. If the opp has been aggressive and would bet the turn, then this is a muck, as the 25.5% pot equity is higher than my 16% hand equity. If the opp has been playing passively and could easily check the turn, then I'd call here as I have 32% hand equity to the river.
The one option that I do not want to do is to raise here. By raising, I'm making the pot equity % much higher and since if there is a turn bet the pot equity is already higher than my hand, this would make the play a larger -EV play, which means that the play is even worse for me.

The turn gives me 3rd pair. I'm checking here, as third pair is most likely not the best hand. Making a large bluff by shoving in an early level of a freeroll is most likely going to be called by someone and is something that I will not do. In a freeroll, due to the maniac players out there, it's even more important for me to play extremely tight and to not shove unless I'm absolutely sure that I'll have the best hand. Since the opp called a raise on the flop, they most likely have a Q or J and due to this, I'm behind.

If the opp had been betting previous hands and I didn't think I could get a free river card if I miss the turn, then I'm mucking the flop as I'm priced out of the hand by their bet.

Hand 2:

CO with 10's makes what is probably a std raise for them and after the SB calls, the BB calls too.

The flop gives the CO a set and the BB a flush draw. When checked to the CO, I would make a 3/4-pot sized bet here. I need to protect my set and by betting just over 1/2 pot with two opps, if both call, then a flush draw is priced in and should call to draw.
When the SB folds, for the BB, it's 800 into a pot of 3100 (25.8%) to call. With KJh, I have 9 outs to the flush and possibly 6 more outs if a J or K would be good. That would give me up to 30% equity to the turn or if the turn's checked, 60% to the river. Since the hand equity is higher than the pot equity, I'm calling.

The turn is a blank (unless someone has A4) and the CO bets 1860. To call, it's 1860 into a pot that will be 6820 (27.3%). With only 9 outs, I have 18% equity, if all 15 outs are good, I have 30% equity. The hand equity could easily be higher here too, so I'm calling again.

The river hits the J and the CO shoves 1543. To call, I have to put 1543 into a pot of 9906 (15.6%). The opp could easily have Tx here and had already committed himself to the pot, so shoved the rest first to put the pressure to call on me. I have top pair (that hit on the river, not earlier) with 2nd kicker and only need to win 15.6% of the time to break even... due to this, I'm calling.

If I was in the CO, I'd have been sizing my bets higher in order to price out the draws. The BB was given the correct odds to be calling and if I was in their seat, I'm calling it all the way down too.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat May 12, 2012, 05:56 AM
(#5)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
Hi John ,

While i appreciate the time you take to analysis for all the various requests , I have a some problems with your analyses . You often mention hand equity vs pot equity for after a player makes a call , eg. say there is 100 in the pot and i bet 50 , the player who is calling is not getting 4/1 to call but 3/1 to make the call , which makes calling for any draw a bad play unless he is certain he will be paid off if it hits , in which case it would be a marginal call but sometimes profitable , but in the long run a bad one .

In the hand in the OP I called on the flop for the very reason of representing a hand if a scare hit , in this case a 10 . I shove the turn because any bet I make leaves me committed and checking looks weak and if I check I am folding to any bet and i am out of position . Also villain has to consider what I am representing ; even if he puts me on just a pair of queens he needs to consider what my kicker is and why I called his bet on the flop , do I have any blockers etc. .
Admittedly i made an overly aggressive play with a hand I knew was probably not the best ( i am trying to represent the nuts here ) , but by going all in I dont think he has sufficient odds to call with 2nd pair and a draw .


As for the league , we all have our own strategies . I used to think that if I played 50 tourneys in the month and scored 10 points each time I would be somewhere near to winning it ; but this is unlikely . I my opinion folding your wy to ITM , while it may guarantee you some points , is never going to be an optimal approach to winning the league . I have done this in the past , but with the tournament structure if you do this you just find that by the time you reach the money points you are incredibly short stacked . I now approach the league differently which is why I made the play in the hand that I posted .


If you take the time to read this , thanks , and any comments are welcome .
 
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Sat May 12, 2012, 12:05 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by frasierbeams View Post
. You often mention hand equity vs pot equity for after a player makes a call , eg. say there is 100 in the pot and i bet 50 , the player who is calling is not getting 4/1 to call but 3/1 to make the call , which makes calling for any draw a bad play unless he is certain he will be paid off if it hits , in which case it would be a marginal call but sometimes profitable , but in the long run a bad one .
Hi Frasier!

To get pot equity percentages, in your example, the caller is putting 50 chips into a pot that will be 200 if they make the call, so it will be 50/200 or 25% pot equity for the call. Not adding that in was a mistake that I used to make too.... that was corrected for me by Dave, Dave and Jared.

Managing a shorter stack is something that a person will have to be able to do in order to get consistant monthly finishes. Sometimes you don't get cards, sometimes you'll lose hands. The key that I always used is to not play anything questionable early, then once ITM, then open up to try and chip up to get to the final table. Being able to manage a short stack like this has been one thing that has helped me tremendously for my live tourney play too. Being able to grind a shorter stack and move up the pay scale is a large help there too.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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