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oh no not again

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oh no not again - Sat May 12, 2012, 05:03 AM
(#1)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
its amazing how often this happens to me . Honestly i have lost lost count how many times my AA loses in spots like this to AK AQ AJ AT , always hitting miracle straights ,flushes , trips etc. Well actually i do know but no one would believe me if i told them . Perhaps I am just one of the unlucky ones whose results for these situations are always going to be on the thin end of the wrong side of the ' normal distribution ' .

This was a 1.50 9 SnG first blind level
Poker Stars $1.29+$0.21 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 1760673
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP1: t1530 76.50 BBs
MP2: t1520 76 BBs
CO: t1480 74 BBs
BTN: t1490 74.50 BBs
SB: t1480 74 BBs
BB: t1500 75 BBs
Hero (UTG): t1500 75 BBs
UTG+1: t1500 75 BBs
UTG+2: t1500 75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is UTG with A :club: A :diamond:
Hero raises to t60, 3 folds, MP2 raises to t160, 4 folds, Hero raises to t480, MP2 raises to t1520 all in, Hero calls t1020 all in

Flop: (t3030) J :club: 7 :club: Q :diamond: (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: (t3030) 3 :spade: (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t3030) T :heart: (2 players - 2 are all in)

A couple of questions spring to mind :-

does he think I am going to fold after 4betting
what does possibly think i have when I have 4bet him from UTG
 
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Sat May 12, 2012, 06:26 AM
(#2)
havocofsmeg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 489
Judging by the blind levels, this is the first level, yes. If so, why are you risking your entire stack?

And please say "because I have AA." First level of any kind of tourny, nothing is worth risking your entire stack. AA may be the best starting pair, but at these buy in levels, there is good chance that you'll get some idiot looking for an easy early double up, and the simple fact is that, whilst yes, your are strong pre flop favorite and the villain won't have a better pre flop hand, AA IS NOT BULLETPROOF. Never forget that you can loose with it. This hand is proof.
 
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Sat May 12, 2012, 12:13 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
**moved to better fitting forum JWK24***

Hi Frasier!

In the first level of a tourney, most players are not even remotely thinking about what the others may have. There are plenty of players that are bingo players and will play anything, especially any A, any broadway or any suited cards.

I'm playing that hand the same way and want the chips in preflop. I'm going to lose some to a bingo player, which is where bankroll management comes into play. I want to be in spots like this.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat May 12, 2012, 12:38 PM
(#4)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
yes we all know that AA IS NOT BULLETPROOF but if you are seriously suggesting i dont get the chips in the middle in this spot , even if it is the first blind level , please do not be offended if i ignore any comments or advice you may be giving in the future .
 
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Sat May 12, 2012, 01:51 PM
(#5)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Yeah SNG's = lot of all-ins preflop = NO FOLD EQUITY POST FLOP = MORE BADBEATS

That's actually my biggest issue with SNG's and one of the major reasons I prefer cash games.
 
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Sat May 12, 2012, 02:14 PM
(#6)
havocofsmeg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 489
Don't get me wrong, I'm not so much knocking how you played it, I'm just sick of people bitching how 1) their AA got cracked and 2) they ran into an idiot/an idiot that got lucky.

Accept that both will occur, learn to deal with it and move on.
 
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Sat May 12, 2012, 02:43 PM
(#7)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Sorry havoc but your are somewhat knocking frasier's play here when you ask frasier "...why are you risking your entire stack?" You then go on to state your opinion that in the first level of any tourney nothing is worth risking one's entire stack. That's at the lest questioning his play and if not outright knocking it you're certainly rubbing up against saying frasier did something wrong here. I strongly disagree.

These are situations we WANT to be in. If someone is willing to put their entire stack in against my aces pre-flop I'm going to take that offer every single time,first level,bubble,final table...come Hell or high water.

Will it blow up in my face sometimes? Of course,but that's where JWK is 100% on the money in reminding us all that this is (yet again) a reason that BR management matters so much. Reason being that if we are adhering to proper BR management principles then we can just relax and play proper poker. And passing on a spot to get our chips in when we KNOW we are well ahead is not proper poker.

frasier's only fault here is that he didn't run better. If he keeps his wits about him and uses proper BR management to stay in the game that will turn. Being able to absorb the hits that inevitably come is all part of the game. Were he or anyone else to begin to let 20% possibilities of bad results influence them into not taking advantage when an 80% possibility of a good result is staring them in the face,THEN he would be making a mistake.

That's my take on it.


As to the complaining of AA getting cracked or idiot luckers...well if it can lead to a somewhat useful discussion as we're having in this thread then all good in my opinion. By most of the time I'm 100% with you on that front for sure.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Sat May 12, 2012 at 02:48 PM..
 
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Sat May 12, 2012, 03:03 PM
(#8)
havocofsmeg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 489
Hey moxie, I asked out of curiosity.

Personally, I prefer a slower approach, say if, for example, two K's or 3suited cards came up on the flop, I could now see that there's a chance I might not be ahead anymore, raise, and if I get re raised, and fold if neccesary. Better to loose, say a third, of my stack on possibly busted aces than loose all of them on definitely busted aces. So in other words, you can come back with a chip and a chair, but not with just a chair.


I'm always up for knowing a different approach, hence why I asked.
 
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Sat May 12, 2012, 03:25 PM
(#9)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Certainly valid and I'm not one to try and force the action into being stack versus stack pre-flop in the earliest stages of a tournament at all times either.

But it was the villain who did so here and if they choose to take it to that point then I myself can never see folding my aces pre as being anything but a bad play.
 
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Sat May 12, 2012, 03:44 PM
(#10)
havocofsmeg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 489
Would definitely like to see aces go to flop as well, but would of just called MP2's raise to 160.

Out of curiosity frasier, what did the villain have in the end?
 
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Sat May 12, 2012, 04:56 PM
(#11)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
HI fraiser what hole cards did your opp have, i cant seem to see that info?

I see a of lot comments here that all make sense to me,but without a solid read of an opp no one can or should have a answer for fraiser to be honest, its a question of do you want the opp to go all in at this early stage as havo suggests,tournement life or bust.

Then as jw and moxi suggest yes the chips must go in this is to get an early chip lead and these spots must not be passed.

As for what the opp was thinking only he will ever know,may of thought you was making a move on him,may of thought his hand was good,may just be rather drunk,may just be a bad player.

The truth is theres 100s of reasons,and no one but him will ever know.

I personally try to mix up my aces play, trying to judge what the opp will do if i push and so on,sometimes i shove, sometimes i will just raise but it all depends on the situation,

Its hard i agree and yes maybe you are amongst the anomolies of losing players on here with aces,
 
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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 03:37 PM
(#12)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
He had AKo

Just one of the numerous times i have been all in pre flop when i have my opponent absolutely dominated only to lose to miracle flushes , straights , trips etc . I am well aware these outcomes are going to happen , it was just at the time i posted the hand it was happening ALL THE TIME .

Anyways I post these bad beats as a means of getting over them , and it is always interesting to read the replies , whether they contain some useful advice or stupid comments .
 
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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 11:18 PM
(#13)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
ts becuase pokerstars programers hate you.

i think they changed the code so you will lose must hands with AA

oh well at least its not me.


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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