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AJo in MP against Maniac inButton 2NLHE

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AJo in MP against Maniac inButton 2NLHE - Wed May 16, 2012, 04:12 PM
(#1)
animosama's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 63
Table 'Timandra V' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: animosama ($2.81 in chips)
Seat 2: Akirafy77 ($5 in chips)
Seat 3: carlostar120 ($11.53 in chips)
Seat 4: HeelDA ($6.35 in chips)
Seat 5: Det0chkin ($5 in chips)
HeelDA: posts small blind $0.01
Det0chkin: posts big blind $0.02
Kykon_H: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to animosama [Ah Jd]
animosama: raises $0.04 to $0.06
Akirafy77: folds
carlostar120: raises $0.12 to $0.18
HeelDA: folds
Det0chkin: folds
animosama: raises $0.40 to $0.58
carlostar120: calls $0.40
*** FLOP *** [7d Qd 6h]
animosama: bets $0.75
carlostar120: calls $0.75
*** TURN *** [7d Qd 6h] [Ad]
animosama: bets $1.48 and is all-in
carlostar120: calls $1.48
*** RIVER *** [7d Qd 6h Ad] [3h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
animosama: shows [Ah Jd] (a pair of Aces)
carlostar120: shows [4h 5h] (a straight, Three to Seven)
carlostar120 collected $5.45 from pot

manic 63/43 3bet 14

He plays a very wide range and even opens 8x

Did I do anything wrong ?

Last edited by animosama; Wed May 16, 2012 at 04:18 PM..
 
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Thu May 17, 2012, 12:23 AM
(#2)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
I think you're just unlucky here, when the money when in you had the best hand.

 
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Thu May 17, 2012, 07:27 PM
(#3)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Hi Animosama.

I would agree that stats like this do appear pretty maniacal, but does him being a maniac preclude him possibly waking up with a hand this time?

Given that this opp was showing only a 14% 3bet frequency, do you think you'd have been in good shape if he 5bet shoved into your AJo?

AJo is roughly a coin flip versus a 14% range 3bet range, so oop against an opp this wild I think I'd really rather flat his 3bet to ensure I see a flop. If I held AKo, and had upwards of about 60% vs a 14% 3bet range, then I'd be perfectly fine in 4betting (as you did with AJo), as well as getting all my chips in if I were 5bet, but with AJo I am not quite as anxious to do that. Had you flatted, check/folding this flop miss is a definate option, simply because you can probably find a better spot, with a better value hand you hold, agaisnt an opp this weak.

You did 4bet though, so the pot has grown to the point I cannot really say I mind a C Bet on a flop miss into this opponent. You C Bet 75c into a $1.19 pot, and this was about 63% pot.

Let's be honest, a player this bad is unlikely to be able to give up on a hand that has ANY "hope", and oftentimes that will include 2nd or 3rd pair hands you are behind and not just draws you are currently beating with your A high. Without any surety you are betting for value, it is probably better in my opinion to send a clear message to a bad opponent that you are betting for value if you truly want him to FOLD. Making your C Bet larger; say around 85c to $1.00, sends that clearer message. Of course an opponent this bad may miss even that "clearer message", and may not fold to your larger C Bet amount; that means all betting more might do is cause you to lose more if/when you give up on turn misses. So I cannot really say that I think betting 75c is a "mistake" here. Please note though, it was your marginal 4bet pre flop which pretty much obligates you to sticking in a C bet in the first place...

The Ad represents a pretty decent card for you, it gives you top pair with a decent kicker and also gives you a re-draw to the 2nd nut flush, but versus an opponent this wide it also represents a card which might have beaten you. I think the stack to pot ratio going to the flop of around 2 means I am not likely FOLDING a top pair once I hit it versus this opp, and since an opp this bad may well call off on any re-draw that the turn gave him to go with a rag pair he might have held on the flop, I have no real issue with getting your stack in as you did.

The villain did call with a pretty weak draw in the face of a possible flush (bottom end of an oesd), and he got lucky to hit and win a big pot by stacking you.

I think the only real mis-step you took was in creating a big pot where you'd have potentially found out you were behind when the money went in, but where the fact of the big pot left you little choice but to possibly get your chips in bad and hope. While AJo is certainly a valid hand to 3bet over a raiser this weak, his considerably tighter 3bet range can have you in trouble if you elect to 4bet, as it was your 4bet which caused the pot to grow to the point where you'd willingly commit on this turn.

The equity AJo holds versus this opp's 3bet range does make it somewhat reasonable to just go ahead and shove on a 4bet pre flop, but the value owning nature of a shove pre (you are likely only called by better and fold out worse) makes that tough. So I think the better course of action here would have been to simply flat his 3bet pre, keep the pot smaller, and make it possible for you to decide whether or not your hand is worth comitting on when the flop comes.

Hope it helps.

-JDean


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Thu May 17, 2012, 08:46 PM
(#4)
animosama's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 63
Thank you both
 
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Thu May 17, 2012, 09:59 PM
(#5)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Hi!

This is kind of outside the box, but there's this CardRunner coach who had an advice blog on 2+2 on table selection, with this article that kind of spoke to me ... here's an excerpt (is that a word? :/):

Quote:
I was watching a 25NL regular playing in a video and the following hand comes up. It’s folded around to us and we raise K4s blind on blind. We get 3-bet by the villain and fold. He shows us 78o and takes the pot

My first reaction was “this is not a good guy to have on our left.” I don’t want someone who is playing 31/27/2 to have position on me 5/6 times per orbit.
Verneer on Table Selection


I'm in the same position as you, playing 2nl. And I moved over to Zoom before I really had the chance to really test out table selection and all that, but the person who posted the link to the Verneer Series, Pteridophyta was doing well, and there's other people who have made blogs on table selection like Schnech. Schnech's got a blog in the forum too: http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...max-cash/page2

Hope you find the links interesting too! GL!!
 
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Fri May 18, 2012, 01:11 AM
(#6)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Hi!

This is kind of outside the box, but there's this CardRunner coach who had an advice blog on 2+2 on table selection, with this article that kind of spoke to me ... here's an excerpt (is that a word? :/):



Verneer on Table Selection


I'm in the same position as you, playing 2nl. And I moved over to Zoom before I really had the chance to really test out table selection and all that, but the person who posted the link to the Verneer Series, Pteridophyta was doing well, and there's other people who have made blogs on table selection like Schnech. Schnech's got a blog in the forum too: http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...max-cash/page2

Hope you find the links interesting too! GL!!
^^ this is a very good point. A person showing these sorts of stats really is someone you;d like immediately on your right (acting before you). This allows you to control pot sizes against him a lot better, as well as pound on him hard with your value hands. His stats definately say he is likely to be a "producer" at the table, but his BAD play tendencies will also lead to frustration when your C bets get called way more often than they really should be.

You are at a 6 max table though, and you will have position on this guy 2 of 6 hands (when he is in the blinds), and the 2 times you are in the blinds when he has position on you, you will get to see his action pre flop before you have to decide whether to enter the pot. this means your particular seat is not as "bad" realitive to this particular maniac as it would be at a full ring.

But it would be better still if you were sitting in heelDA's seat.


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Fri May 18, 2012, 01:22 AM
(#7)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Ok, thx JD!!

Will have to add that to my list 'o resources, in case I ever go back to non-zoom tables
 
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Fri May 18, 2012, 01:41 AM
(#8)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
PS

lol ... did everybody see that 'diss' of Guy Laliberte in the article?


Look at the size of the pot in this screencap




I guess he just plays for fun

Last edited by TrustySam; Fri May 18, 2012 at 02:06 AM..
 

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