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Effective note taking in sng 90 man and mtt's

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Effective note taking in sng 90 man and mtt's - Thu May 31, 2012, 12:06 PM
(#1)
hbhuang341's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 79
The title says it,how can i take effective notes in a sng and mtt,because the field is so big,people wil go home in a few orbits when i taking notes on them...Espiaclly in early and middle stages.In my opnium,I take notes of players with abnormal circumstances and players who played very well with strong starting hands or marginal hands that makes a strong hand like something.
Around the bubble and late stages,I take notes of everyone,because there's a chance when i reach the final table,i will also see them.

I saw the vid of Dave about how to take them,but it's not clear how he takes notes at mtt and sng....

Something about odds
Some people say,you have the right odds to see the flop,does they mean that sticky note at the sng course ?
And what are the odds the see the showdown ,i've watched the Big Game and the commentator said,he has the right odds to see the showdown,what does that mean? And is that important in SnG and mtt?
So... if someone help me,i say thanks

Last edited by hbhuang341; Thu May 31, 2012 at 12:38 PM..
 
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Thu May 31, 2012, 12:37 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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Hi hbhuang!

I take notes in the sng's and mtt's that I'm in. Yes, players will be moved around and will be getting ko'd.... but.... in many cases, if I'm playing the same tourneys over and over, I will be seeing them again. Every note that I can get to help with when they play again at my table is a big help.
Early in sng's or mtt's, there are a few basic things that I will look for. Players that will play any ace, any suited cards, etc. Along with whether or not they are a maniac or a calling station.

Sometimes you can't get many notes on a player, as they don't last long enough in the tourney, but if you see the opps over and over, you'll notice a pattern with the way that they play and these are the notes that I want to have.

Hope this helps.

John (JWK24)


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Thu May 31, 2012, 12:47 PM
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hbhuang341's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 79
Well,i think you are playing at high stakes ,but i play at the micro's and what Dave said,the fields are very big, people will go home in no-time and there's a chance that you will be moved to another table.So it's hard to get information from them..
I dont use Pokertracker or HoldemManeger,but I think is a little expensive for a micro-grinder .My bankroll is just about 420 dollars and those programms are 80 dollars,so do you give me advice to buy one ?
 
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Thu May 31, 2012, 01:05 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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I don't have a HUD and since I'm in the US, just playing the play money tables now. The regular tourneys that I played before black friday were the dime, quarter, 55 cent, $1.10 tourneys... all the smaller micro tourneys.

I do know that if the US players are ever able to play again, I'm going to buy a HUD.. but not sure which one.

John (JWK24)


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Thu May 31, 2012, 01:08 PM
(#5)
DiveAllIn's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 377
I believe HEM has a micro version and would be cheaper than the full version. I also take notes look for trends eg. bet sizing and as you said anything abnormal.

gl with your games
 
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Notes and pot odds - Thu May 31, 2012, 03:37 PM
(#6)
king_spadez1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbhuang341 View Post
The title says it,how can i take effective notes in a sng and mtt,because the field is so big,people wil go home in a few orbits when i taking notes on them...Espiaclly in early and middle stages.In my opnium,I take notes of players with abnormal circumstances and players who played very well with strong starting hands or marginal hands that makes a strong hand like something.
Around the bubble and late stages,I take notes of everyone,because there's a chance when i reach the final table,i will also see them.

I saw the vid of Dave about how to take them,but it's not clear how he takes notes at mtt and sng....

Something about odds
Some people say,you have the right odds to see the flop,does they mean that sticky note at the sng course ?
And what are the odds the see the showdown ,i've watched the Big Game and the commentator said,he has the right odds to see the showdown,what does that mean? And is that important in SnG and mtt?
So... if someone help me,i say thanks
I’ve found that taking too many notes will hinder your current game, as you may be too busy jotting a note while missing action at the table. This is especially true when (and if) you multi-table. Effective note taking in MTT’s should consist of what stage and how deep the stacks are, which in itself can be rather intensive. There’s much more info needed when playing MTT’s as compared to cash. If you’re not a grinder it’ll take you longer to gather the reliable info you need on a particular opponent; by the time you gather the info (possibly over a six-month period) it may be unreliable, as that player may have changed his style of play over that period of time.

You can color code your villains on the fly, using the PokerStars color system; at the moment I’m using a 10-color system that works well for me. Along with the color code system, I gather info on hands that reach showdown, for instance it’s useful to note… if a player is calling down river bets with 2nd or 3rd pair; which opponents will open/limp/call, and if they are out of position or in position when they do that; passive players, that never seem to bet unless they have a strong hand; aggressive donkers and 3-bettors (important to get their SD info); all-in shoving ranges (note stack size), and from what position (extremely important if they are lighter than normal); all-in calling ranges (and stack size they called), are very important; etc.. You can also gather info when hands don’t make it to showdown, such as… does the opponent have a fold button (can you bluff them?); will they call an extra large pre-flop raise? Will they open/limp/fold? Will they open/limp/raise? ; Etc.

As a quick way to get a grasp on your opponents’ tendencies, a HUD is a valuable tool. A HUD provides a history of hands that you’ve played, and is very beneficial as a reviewing tool. Even playing micros, a HUD will pay for itself by spotting your leaks. Of course you’ll have to know what to look for while reexamining your hand histories; there are videos on YouTube that can help guide you through your review. You may gain enough confidence in your game through review, and study, which will enable you to increase your buy-in level; be sure to follow bankroll management techniques before leveling up.

As far as correct odds to call… Cash games and MTT’s are a different animal, like apples and oranges. There are many times that you may decline a +cEV (positive chip expected value) during an MTT, but in the same situation you would continue in a cash game. There are many factors that contribute to taking different lines in an MTT as opposed to cash; stacks sizes, as well as what stage of the MTT are just a couple. You can figure out your hand equity by inputting your hand info, and the expected hand range info of your opponent, into Poker Stove (pokerstove.com). When an announcer says, “He has the right odds to call pre-flop” it may mean that in an all-in heads-up situation, the pot is twice as big as the amount of chips a player has to put in to call. The 2:1 pot odds that are being offered means that all the player needs to have is 33% equity in the pot to break even in the long run (zero EV); even 72o has 33% equity vs. Ako. When the announcer says this on a river decision, it may mean that the player has to call a smallish bet. A bet of 1/3 the pot equates to 4:1 odds, which in turn means that the caller only has to be right 20% of the time (1 out of 5), to make it a zero EV play. As far as your last question, “Is having the right odds important in SNG’s, and MTT’s?”… There are too many factors that blend in while making a decision for calling, even if you are getting better than correct odds (+EV); so I’d have to say it’s always situational. During tournament play there are many times that the chips you may win are worth less than the chip you may lose; this is especially true in non-multi-way pots. During the latter part of an MTT (especially the final table), $EV (what your chips are really worth money-wise) can be calculated by an independent chip model (ICM) calculator. This gives you an idea of where you stand financially in the tournament, and thus should dictate your play much more than cEV.


"May the cards be with you!"
 
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Sat Jun 02, 2012, 04:50 PM
(#7)
hbhuang341's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 79
About notes,i took some notes today at the micro 3.3 today.
It looks like this:
- Loose maniac::Limper in early stage::Set-miner
Check/raise > fold ::Calling-station w/ top pair,straight
Raise with 'made hands',strong(any pair,suit,A,K and broadway) starting hands(straight-forward)

-Tight Agg::Set-miner
Slowsdown with small pair(no set)
Raise 4x-6x BB w/ strong hands

-Tight Agg::Set mining
Triple barrels w/ same bet size

Did I take good notes outhere ?
 
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Sat Jun 02, 2012, 05:07 PM
(#8)
ChewMe1's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 574
The notes you take are good, other notes I take that spring to mind might be how often a player defends his blinds and how often he 3bets and folds to 3bets, how often he c-bets. With a HUD these notes will be given to you so it may be worth it for you in the long run
 
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Sat Jun 02, 2012, 05:09 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
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Also, look for players, especially early in a tourney, that will play any 2 suited cards. If the board then doesn't hit 3 of a suit... then you're more likely ahead if they play that way.

John (JWK24)


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Sat Jun 02, 2012, 05:30 PM
(#10)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
this vid might help


http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...ve-Note-Taking

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Jun 03, 2012, 04:54 PM
(#11)
hbhuang341's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 79
Thanks all !!
And Grade B ,ive already watched that vic,but i will watch it few more times
 
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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 07:42 AM
(#12)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I use HEM2 small stakes version, I would urge anyone to pay for it even just to analyse your own play.

I still make loads of notes but the first thing I do at any table is identify the raising stations and calling stations by colour coding their pre flop play. It's quick to identify, even after 2 or 3 hands, you can always change it if they change their game. I use orange for raising stations and blue for calling station, Red for good players and magenta for rocks. I have very few reds and magenta's, a load of blues but mostly oranges. This is a head start in any game before my HUD kicks in after the first hand. I know straight away not to enter a pot with a hand like 44 utg when you know opponents behind you will raise and re-raise. Similarly I can play 44 when there are 3 blues behind me as you know they will limp.

I then note any descrepancies in their play as to how I would play a hand. One useful feature of HEM is showing mucked cards without me having to dig into hand history. If someone limps J2s utg then I'll take a note, if someone raises 22 or won't old and A that gets a note. Flush chaser, straight chasers and gutshot chasers all get a note. Basically I note anything that I wouldn't do in a particular spot.

I also abbreviate notes ie. DNB WNF is Do not bluff, will not fold. 75s l utg+1 is 75s limped under the gun plus 1.

For those that think there's no point in note taking because you will never play them again then you're totally wrong. Make enough notes on enough players and you will find you encounter the same players over and over again. I think it's one of my strengths in reading a table and a player. I just get a sixth sense rangeing my opponents hands and note taking is a vital part of it. I've been effective note taking for around 6 years and have never had a losing year.

Last edited by Ovalman; Mon Jun 04, 2012 at 07:44 AM.. Reason: spelling
 
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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 07:46 AM
(#13)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
To add, I paid for HEM from a $50 bonus for KO'ing a player. I would suggest you reward yourself with this purchase for good play if you ever win enough to pay for it. I think you would appreciate it more because you know it will help your game. I've now 250,000 hands stored on my laptop. A SSD HD is my next reward
 
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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 09:28 AM
(#14)
hbhuang341's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 79
Wow,thanks for your advice!
But im just a noob in taking notes,so i need to take a lot of notes and fast ,just to practise etc
I dont know how you use colour labels,is that just one aspect of a player or more ?
I'm going to buy a hem if my bankroll will allow me to buy one,i think it takes a BIG advantage on players who dont use them .Till which limit can you use for hem at low stakes,i play till a 11 buy-in mtt .
 
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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 10:03 AM
(#15)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Low stakes is up to $11.

I've only played a couple of higher stakes and most of which has been via a satellite won. I don't play enough at these stakes to think the upgrade is a big enough investment even though it's only a few $$$ more. BTW I get free Omaha stats (not that I play it much) but I think it may be a glitch in the low stakes version. I aint complaining though

I only colour code for pre flop play. Generally most of my opponents are raising stations but you can get very specific on certain aspects of their game. For example if they fold every time you raise then that's an easy note to make and you can keep stealing their blinds with rags every time. You know if they call or re-raise you you're most certainly behind.

Every player (including me) has tendancies you can exploit. Find their weakness, note it and win chips off them every time you play them. Many if not most micro stakes players only play their own cards but you need to play the player as well. If you find a weakness in a player then punish them.

I haven't looked at the training videos on note taking, I may do so but what I've explained is how I keep notes and colour coding. Others may do it differently but it's what works for me.
 
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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 10:12 AM
(#16)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Playing elsewhere, I've just been dealt AKs in the 2nd hand of a MTT. I raised 5x pot as there were 2 other limpers. Straight away player on the button pushed all in and I folded. I just colour coded him orange and noted "rr ai low chips".

I'll probably raise in the same position if we were to meet again but that note gives me a good indication of what I'm up against. I will get him at some point in this game if he lasts long enough.
 
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Thu Jun 14, 2012, 07:48 AM
(#17)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Good stuff here! I have two extra points to add.

Firstly, if you use HEM, pay attention to how many hands you have on the person. If you only have a few hands, then the stats can be misleading. Secondly, if you are a 90 man regular, then then number of hands helps you quickly spot the other regs at your table

Secondly, I regularly play 180 man tourneys. I keep track of how often I encounter people at the final table (I simply write "ft 2/180") and take pretty detailed notes of how they play there. Does the chip leader raise every unopened hand? Does he fold to a reraise? etc. Having an edge at the ft is where you will make all your profit

GL!
Roland GTX
 

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