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(bad) news from Pokerstars

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(bad) news from Pokerstars - Fri Jun 01, 2012, 03:47 PM
(#1)
Don B. Cilly's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 394
For me that is.
Everyone else will probably be happy :/

"We are happy to confirm that PokerStars was today granted a license to operate in Spain and we plan to launch www.PokerStars.es on June 5th. For now, Spanish players can continue to compete on www.PokerStars.com as normal and don’t need to take any action".

What it means: Residents of Spain will only be able to play on the .es.

What it means for me: instead of being able to play on a first-rate site with a world-class pool of players (for good or bad) and an incredible choice of events, I'll have to play on ... the... .es :(
No drunk-tanks and similar good things either.

What it means for you: you get rid of the rather annoying Spanish player pool.

Oh well.
 
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Fri Jun 01, 2012, 03:53 PM
(#2)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,506
If this trend continues, pretty soon people will only be able to play against their own Countrymen, it will no longer be a Worldwide community.

 
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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 11:36 AM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/2012/p...sp-095057.html

Doubtful it would ever come to that Bill, it would require all the countries to pass similar laws. While I wouldn't presume to speak for PokerStars on the matter, I would bet my bankroll that if they had their choice, everyone in the entire world would be able to play together on .com.


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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 11:46 AM
(#4)
havocofsmeg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 489
OK, I'm confused now!

If PS only now have a licence to operate in Spain, how comes players like don.b.cilly can play on Stars? And why segregate them, the french, Italians or anyone?
 
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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 11:51 AM
(#5)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Iirc you can rejoin the new site and get the start up bonus again.

This also applies to players outside of these countries. So I in the UK can join pokerstars.es and .fr and get my start up bonus.

Could PokerstarsVIP confirm this?
 
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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 12:34 PM
(#6)
Don B. Cilly's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 394
My guess is they segregate because of the rake.
Since in Spain they will have to pay 25% tax on rake, and pay 35% tax on profits, they have to charge a higher one. Ok, they don't have to, but...
So I guess it would be too complicated to charge players different rakes based on country on the same site.

Even though... they could do that for tourneys, couldn't they? So we'd still be able to play big tourneys against a world pool (paying more rake) and ring games Spain-only...
 
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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 02:19 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by havocofsmeg View Post
OK, I'm confused now!

If PS only now have a licence to operate in Spain, how comes players like don.b.cilly can play on Stars? And why segregate them, the french, Italians or anyone?
If I understand it right there was a legality change in Spain, before they were allowed to play on .com but now they can only play within Spain (only against others from their country) and the country has issued a license to PS to provide a platform for this. I really don't know the specifics or how accurate that is, but I think that's what's going on.


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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 03:39 PM
(#8)
Don B. Cilly's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 394
Right. Up to now (tomorrow, 9AM local) it was unregulated.
So we could play against the Russians and all.
Now it's regulated, and we can't.

One would think, OK, tax it, fair enough* but why shouldn't I be able to (try and) take the money from the Russians and then pay tax on it if I do? My guess is above.

Now, with just about every government being bankrupt, maybe this "trend" will continue to the point it will reverse. If every country regulates and demands tax, eventually, it will even out and we'll be able to play on the global internet again.

In the meantime, if any girl from Gibraltar wants to marry me, I'm interested, please PM me ;)


* Actually it would be fair enough if they didn't announce cuts to health and education while in the same breath bail out one bank for three times the amount, but [censored]
 
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Mon Jun 04, 2012, 03:47 PM
(#9)
Don B. Cilly's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 394
BTW, if anyone either speaks Spanish or can make reasonable guesses on page-translation plug-ins, this is the intellipoker.es thread on the subject.
 
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Tue Jun 05, 2012, 05:20 PM
(#10)
Don B. Cilly's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 394
Actually my guess on the rake seems to be wrong.
Rake on the .es appears to be much the same as on the .com

So I guess :) the segregation (which seems to be required by the governments, not the sites) is because... they have no confidence in their own citizens.

Along the lines of: yes, we could take a lot of money from Russia and even make tax money on that, but chances are, we'll be losing most of the money to Russia and even the tax won't offset it.

Now, I (guess I) hadn't thought of that because I'm not a losing player. I play ridiculous money but I definitely win more than I lose (check me stats, I'm opt-in :)

But the idea probably is, the majority of players are losing players... especially in my country. My country is populated by idiots (I'm the government, I should know, they voted me), so I'm not going to let them play against citizens of other countries which are probably not so stupid as they didn't vote for me... or something ;)
 
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doing the same in australia - Thu Jul 05, 2012, 08:59 AM
(#11)
dynonagents's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2
there doing the same thing downunder.
its all about the tax.
legalize it tax it crack down on the sites that don't pay.
pokerstars will have to work hard to keep the game global.
 
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Thu Jul 05, 2012, 03:32 PM
(#12)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,506
In this Global Economic Climate, where Countries are finding it very difficult financially, for whatever the reason.
Any Country that Taxes Gambling, especially Winnings as opposed to just Wagers, will, in my opinion, follow the example of Spain and regulate Licensing within their own Borders, so that members of PokerStars will be Taxable on any winnings, and the License will ensure that the specific National Revenue body will be able to check with Stars if a person has declared ALL winnings from the Stars site.

There is a considerable amount of money being won ( and lost, although Governments aren't interested in your losses, only your gains ) worldwide, and Governments with financial problems would be very foolish to ignore this chance at extra income, albeit small in comparison to their National requirements, but as they say, 'Every Little Helps'.

I know this sucks, but I feel that the Global Community of PokerStars is fast coming to an end.

 
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Thu Jul 05, 2012, 05:27 PM
(#13)
scorpion1367's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 123
Think your spot on Bill .I have heard muffled rumblings that the Canadian government has a five year plan involving on line gambling sites including poker ones .I heard that about a year or so ago so the clock may be ticking on us Canadians as well.........scorp
 
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Thu Jul 05, 2012, 05:42 PM
(#14)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion1367 View Post
Think your spot on Bill .I have heard muffled rumblings that the Canadian government has a five year plan involving on line gambling sites including poker ones .I heard that about a year or so ago so the clock may be ticking on us Canadians as well.........scorp
I think your wrong
Any winnings from lottery, Casinos are NONE taxable
For over 30 years, all lotteries have never been taxed, so why would they start now?
All gambling is done with after tax money, so why do countries tax winnings?
They should be taxing the rake the companies make

 
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Surprise - Thu Jul 05, 2012, 05:47 PM
(#15)
CHILLI 2 U's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 395
ChromeStar
The Canadian government has on line pokersites ie: playnow.com which are casino, sports , gambling etc., There also is no tax on lottery or gambling winnings in Canada and I would like to see the government that tries to change that, they sure as hell wont be governing anything long.. As there lottery system is connected to their gambling site they are making a killing as you can see by the untaxed payouts year after year and all the non profit organizations they support. If they taxed these winnings all those organizations would lose too, and you think the government is going to take over supporting them . NOT!! Think we are fairly safe for a long time to come. There would be an uprising from both the players and the communities which would no longer recieve lottery/casino funding.


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Thu Jul 05, 2012, 06:10 PM
(#16)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don B. Cilly View Post
In the meantime, if any girl from Gibraltar wants to marry me, I'm interested, please PM me
Having neither the *******ia you require or the desire to experiment, I'll pass on that request. But...................

Come join me in Gozo. I have one friend already there. Another making arrangements to relocate next year. And I'll be there by October. Now. All I need to do is start making enough money for the tax saving to be meaningful and I'll be able to say I did the right thing
 
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Thu Jul 05, 2012, 06:13 PM
(#17)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
What the hell was wrong with that word???
 
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Thu Jul 05, 2012, 06:15 PM
(#18)
scorpion1367's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 123
Personally I hope sand and chilli that u guys are right just throwin it out there as food for thought think it was harpers idea but not sure about that ....heard it on the news one nite that they had a plan anyway......
 
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Thu Jul 05, 2012, 08:33 PM
(#19)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,506
Sandtrap and Chilli, I think you are both missing the point here.

Lotteries ARE Taxed, typically 10% - 20% dependant upon the License and Country.
This TAX is taken at source, i.e. on the wagers. Winnings could very easily be reclassified by Governments to be Unearned income. Charitable institutions already have Tax concessions in place and there would be no need to change this arrangement.

If an operator of an online Poker site is granted a License to operate within the boundaries of a Country, then that Company is then liable for tax, in that Country, for any revenue derived from the use of said License. ( which in effect, Sand, is a Tax on the Rake ). Without a License being required, the Company would only pay taxes on their revenue in the Country of their registration,( as there would be no way for those other Countries to ascertain how much 'revenue' was generated, for the Company, by their citizens ) therefore the Countries in which they are trading would lose out on this revenue source.

A system could be put in place, by PokerStars, that would track who won what, when and where, but in order for this be totally effective, it would mean that ALL of PokerStars Accounting would be open to scrutiny by ALL the Revenue Services of ALL Countries, and I don't think that Stars would go for that option. Far easier to go down the path of segregation, thereby only needing to allow each individual Country, access to information regarding their own citizens.

Each Country has their own set of regulations, some more punitive than others, but without exception, Governments, via their Internal Revenue Services, will garner every penny they can, from whatever source they can.

It won't make a great deal of difference to PokerStars, if 'Borders' are closed, they will still be catering to the Poker Players of the World. The difference will be what the players experience, some will no longer be able to play online against participants from other Countries, and we that still are able, will find that the pool from which our opponents come, is very much reduced.

There are ways that could circumvent the way things are going, and I have no doubt that PokerStars are looking at some of these.
But, very much like in Poker, 'it depends'.

 
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Thu Jul 05, 2012, 09:00 PM
(#20)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curran View Post
Sandtrap and Chilli, I think you are both missing the point here.

Lotteries ARE Taxed, typically 10% - 20% dependant upon the License and Country.
This TAX is taken at source, i.e. on the wagers. Winnings could very easily be reclassified by Governments to be Unearned income. Charitable institutions already have Tax concessions in place and there would be no need to change this arrangement.

Bill you are totally and hugely wrong
If you take the time to read my reply it was directed to Scorpion about Canada
Here in Canada, there is NO taxes to be paid on winnings (poker, casino, lottery)
If I win 1 million dollars at poker or at the casino or in a lottery, it's TAX FREE

We even have a tax treaty with the US
I won money at US casinos and they withheld 30%, when I got home, I filed a document and got the entire amount back IN MY POCKET

Now as for the lottery such as the 6/49, yes they take 40% at source from the sale of tickets. That 40% is used for expenses for the state lottery and a portion goes in the government piggy bank
 

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