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UTG QQ 2nl deep stacked villain

UTG QQ 2nl deep stacked villain - Wed Jun 06, 2012, 07:25 PM
Croyd93's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 639
So I'd been playing with the main villain from the hand at two tables for 189 hands over the night and we had a little history. I'll explain this later first here are my observations. The vilain in the BB is very LAG, I would call him a maniac but he did have a fold button and even checked some pots down although not many.

Here is the run down on his stats:

VPIP: 55
PFR: 31
AF: 4.59
3-bet 25.4%
C-bet 91%

Safe to say he was aggro. He liked to overcommit postflop, he would put a lot of chips in with one pair hands but I only saw him stack off with two pair or better. He wasn't afraid to try bluffs as his stats suggest.

On to the history I had with him, the first and most notable big pot I played with him was when I had 77 in the BB. I basically managed to stack through him when he had 2 pair.

In another hand I had KJ the flop was pretty low and it went check check. I hit my K on the turn and he checked, I raised he then raised small and i called. The river then bricked and he led i called he had A6s.

As the night progressed I think i started to get to him I'd taken a fair amount off him in a few pots and he started to 3-bet me more often sometimes 4-betting my 3-bets. Another thing he began to do was to limp 3-bet me when I iso'd him (although this was only 2 maybe 3 times). Safe to say we were playing a few hands together.

So onto the hand in question, by this point i decided to top off to 250BB as i thought if i hit a hand against this guy i can stack through him. I have QQ UTG and make my standard 3x raise the BTN calls ad low and behold the villain in the BB 3-bets this wasn't uncommen by any means and i figure i am ahead of his range so decided to 4-bet the BTN folds and the villain 5-bets small.....

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

At the time knowing how aggressive he was and how increasingly aggro he had been getting pre-flop with me i thought he might 5-bet small like this with AA KK QQ JJ AK suited and off and AQs I have since pokerstoved this and found that I was therefore an underdog to his range so is a fold just best in this spot or would a flat be okay and then get in on any flop without overcards on it? Or would a shove be okay here?

Thanks for any advice and sorry for the long post.


Last edited by Croyd93; Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:31 PM..
Wed Jun 06, 2012, 08:14 PM
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
Long posts are good, they give more info to work with, no apology necessary. I'm calling here but would be re-evaluating on the flop. Even LAG maniacs can have a hand, but with QQ this would be a very tough fold for me. If he fired again with overs on the flop, I would fold here, this is a tricky situation for you out of position, I would have called his 4? bet without the extra aggression in this position.


Thu Jun 07, 2012, 12:08 AM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,511
(Head Trainer)
Hi croyd,

I think the real problem in this hand isn't what to do now, the real problem occurred when you 4b him without a plan for how you were going to proceed if he 5b you. Always have a plan for your hand.

I would actually flat his 3b since he may be doing this light, and use my position to play post flop against him. Once we 4b, given the history and his hyper-aggression, I'm never folding. I also don't like flat calling since I won't have any idea what to do with an ace or king high flop. So I would jam here and hope I'm not coolered. He might even think with the history that we are full of it and call off with worse like TT or JJ, but tbh I'm not at all happy with this situation playing 250bb's deep, and his 4b sizing looks like he's just begging us to come over the top and shove too.

Then again, he's crazy aggro to. So I would only 4b if my plan was to get it in pre to a 5b (if you 4b/fold you're simply turning QQ into a bluff and that's really bad).


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Thu Jun 07, 2012, 08:02 AM
Croyd93's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 639
Hi Dave,

I agree completely with the analysis the main problem came from me 4-betting without a plan. I also think I that topping off my stack may not have helped as I was playing pretty deep which i'm not used to doing. I also agree that the flat of his 3-bet would have been much better, however once i 4-bet him I committed myself to shoving and thus I did. He ended up having kings but I didn't mind to much. It was an enjoyable night playing against him and he kept me on my toes, hopefully this will teach me to plan my hands more.

Thanks for the great analysis.

Thu Jun 07, 2012, 03:52 PM
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
Hi Oliver (Croyd93).

I like the way Dave out it better than the way I said it to you on skype, but then that is "standard" because he is a WAY better teacher than I ;-)

For those who weren't in the chat, Oliver and I discussed this, and we arrived at essentially the same think Lango put up here.

QQ is a sick hand to have in this spot. There is enough reason to think it might be the best hand, but when we 4bet and get 5bet, we really have to think about shoving or folding.

Oliver's perceived range for the opp gives him just under coin flip equity with QQ (around 48%), so if a 4bet has reason then a shove also has reason.

We discussed flatting the 3bet, but we realized that unless an A or K came on the flop, Oliver was going to be pretty committed. He was going to be pretty stuck in calling or betting/raising with his hand if he still held an over pair. He'd also runs the risk of seeing an A or K and being bet off the best hand. Also, if the villain DID hold a lesser hand than QQ, Oliver stood relatively little chance of being able to extract max value from an opp with post flop discipline.

Given that the villain was wide enough to make Oliver think he held the best hand, all these were very good reasons to put in the 4bet, but as Lango said, one that 4bet is in you have committed yourself really strongly.

All in all this is a VERY sticky spot to have QQ. If you have KK here your decision is obvious. If you have JJ versus this particular opp, your decision is also pretty obvious.

- JDean

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Thu Jun 07, 2012, 05:38 PM
bearxing's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 499
When I read in your post that you had quite a history in this session with the villain and that he was becoming increasingly aggro, I thought that he might be on tilt a bit. If so. his range could be wider than your estimate.


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