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unreal run

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unreal run - Fri Jun 08, 2012, 09:58 PM
(#1)
Roythestone's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
Hi guys,
I've recently switched back to pokerstars but have never been a profitable player here. I am still 7k up with one of my other accounts and am rated 81 in MTTS by scope but have lost 2k in the last few months since a 4.4k win. There is nothing i can now do to win, i've checked and 80% of the time i put all my chips in i'm ahead, it's an unreal stat when you consider that i can't win. It's really getting to me as i don't think my play is any different, I'm making sound judgement calls and only pushing strong hands but am just getting killed on the turn or river so often it's honestly beyond a joke. I have tried to laugh it off and tried to convince myself that it will change, even changing sites back to here in an effort to change my luck but nothing is helping.... should I just give up or has anyone got any insights into what I can do to help myself? all comments appreciated.
Roy.
 
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Sat Jun 09, 2012, 12:33 AM
(#2)
wikked76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 385
Hi Roy,

Sorry to hear about your plight.. But I guess sometimes no matter what you do, things might, still, will go wrong. After all, it's still a game and there will be winners, and losers.

Maybe it might be a good idea to take a break from the game for awhile, refresh and recharge the mind and come back after?

Hope it helps and good luck!

wikked76
 
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Sat Jun 09, 2012, 12:34 AM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,862
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Roy!

Without seeing the hands, the one thing that I noticed was your reply in the one hand analysis thread. By shoving or betting too large of a stack, a player can 'value own' themselves, where a player will only be called by better hands and will fold out all the worse hands. This could possibly be something that is happening to you.

I'd recommend taking a look at the theory videos from Dave in the video section as they will give a ton of solid advice for both cash tables and tournies... along with the live trainings and videos from the other trainers and pros. One key to playing better and better poker is to keep learning.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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we all get them - Sat Jun 09, 2012, 06:41 AM
(#4)
DaiDark's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 51
hi roy look in the blog someone post a good one UPS AN DOWNS i think its called.am just on the tail end of a swing my self what i have done is go watch the videos an rethink my play also hand historys help a few hours looking at them cant harm SAVE you money too
 
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Sat Jun 09, 2012, 12:04 PM
(#5)
Roythestone's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
thanks for the input guys,
i will go and look at the videos and see if they can help. Thing with this game is that as soon as you think you have it mastered it comes back and bites you in the a**!!
g luck all,
Roy.
 
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That can be true - Sat Jun 09, 2012, 01:06 PM
(#6)
DaiDark's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 51
That can be true but i found the videos are an easy way to take your mind off the swing once i start watching them i could not stop ive nearly used all me mega bites up but they probly the best way ive use them in months give me a pm if you find any thing in them that helps
 
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Sat Jun 09, 2012, 11:54 PM
(#7)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
There are LOTS of videos that will help your game, whether you are a beginner or a old hand. Checking out the videos will help your game, no matter what level you're playing at.

 
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Sun Jun 10, 2012, 05:38 AM
(#8)
wannebeer's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 1
Hi Roy,

I am way down the the ranking and play, i think very low $ tournies. But what i find unreal is that 10´s of thousand players on pokerstars complaining about the same problem that u have. And that there are only reactions ¨positive¨reaction that say: step away from poker for a while and watch the video´s.

I have the same experience as you. Most of the time i loose with the best hands, AA KK ect, against lower pockets. And tons of time other players getting there runner runner on the turn and river and make there normally impossible straight. within 9 hands i saw a royal winning from 2 quads, 3 hands later 4 sets on the same flop and 3 hands later a straight winning against 2 sets. ( +- if i remember correctly ) . I think if u try to calculate that it will be 0.000..... %

So what i think is unreal is that not tons of other players that are complaining about the same problem are also reply here.

But on the other hand: how many players are so serius working on there pokerskills that they try to watch as many video´s here in the pokerschool to improve ?? :)

So my conclusion is: yes it happens to much on PS and tons of players complain, but if they dont respond to Threads like this, PS will never look into the problem that hands like that are to often dealt in the pokerrooms then in real live.

But who am i!! I try to getting better all the time and hope 1 day to become that good that PS take me into there PS pro team :)

Br,

John

PS Its sad what happening to me and the other spanish players btw. It makes my PS experience
less fun. Because we now only can play against spanish players. But that will be a new Thread

PS
 
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Welcome - Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:41 AM
(#9)
bearxing's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 499
Hi wannebeer. Welcome to the PSO forum. A summary of our many features can be found here.

Even though you can not play on the main site you are still welcome here at PSO.

Good luck
Doug


3 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Jun 10, 2012, 10:41 AM
(#10)
Roythestone's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
Thanks again guys,
I don't subscribe though to the conspiracy theory that it is fixed. I've read up on the software and it's theoretically sound, I know it looks bad some days and you see some outrageous hands coming down but think of the sheer volume of hands you watch when playing 3-4 tables for hours on end, it's way more than you could ever see live and so you are bound to see more crazyness! The Software does seem to favour the big stacks but that only because you remember losing to a big stack when they suck out or put you all in with 8 3 off and take it down. You don't remember the wins because you expect to win these hands. It's your last hand in any tournament that you remember most! My problem is that every book i've read and all my experience tells me that luck evens out eventually... meaning I must be due a pretty awesome run of wins lol!!
Anyhow, I'm off to the video section as it's no good just moaning about it, thanks again guys.
Roy.
 
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Sat Jun 16, 2012, 06:43 AM
(#11)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
Hello there .
Could you tell me where you read up on the software being theoretically sound ( interesting choice of word ) ?

I am not going to say the software is unsound but any info PS gave me regarding this matter was not very helpful . Their links to Cigital's endorsement dont really prove anything and Cigital and Quantique , the company that created the RNG , dont really have anything to say if you try contacting them . But as poker is a skill game with an element of luck we should not really bother about the software but focus more on our decisions because better decisions will show the benefit in the long run as many people like to reiterate.


As for runs , good or bad , it is only reasonable to expect that we all get our fair share . However , recently I had a nice 2 day period where I almost trebled my bankroll but since being in a dispute with Support here on Pokerstars and without playing significantly differently , I have had the most horrendous run of luck ; the same happened the last time I had a dispute with Pokerstars last year ; this could be , and probably is coincidence .

An interesting note on this latest dispute with Pokerstars is the following : after many exchanges of email in which Pokerstars Support refused to redress my dispute with them I asked for the matter to be taken up by management . This was duly done . As the complaint had been moved to more senior persons i decided to wait a day for a response : it is customary to have a reply within 20-30minutes . However , 2 days later with no reply I contacted support again and with no response after an hour I sent one last email threatening legal action ( and it was a serious threat ) . Within 30 seconds of sending this last email I receive a response in which the dispute has been resolved in my favour . The timing of this reply , could just be , and probably is coincidence . None-the -less , at the time of writing the bad run continues ( compounded by bad play on my part ) .

A final word ; it will be interesting to see if the suggestion I made to Pokerstars regarding this dispute is ever implemented . Somehow I don't think it will .
 
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Mon Jun 18, 2012, 06:23 AM
(#12)
Roythestone's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
Hi there Frasier,

It sounds to me like you are having a few issues with the site and are looking for reasons and or explanations. As you have not specified what your complaint concerns i'm not sure I can offer any useful help.

However, to answer your question on the software, I can tell you that I have read a lot of books that cover all areas of poker in all its forms (Harrington, Slansky, Hellmuth, Nguyen, Nelson, Streib and Heston, Greenstein and of course Brunsen et al) and none of them, not one, have any negative comments on the software used by pokerstars, merge, on game, cereus, ipoker, pacific or any of the big networks involved.

So when i say that I have read up on the software i'm really saying that there are no negative comments about it at all, the pokerstars network is the biggest and most popular in the world and frequently rated as the best, see ....links removed.. for reviews but don't just take my word for it, google complaints about pokerstars, or complaints about poker networks and clients and you can see for yourself that apart from people moaning (like me lol) about bad beats and bad runs there just isn't any volume of complaints that add up to a real issue of unfairness.

I think when your mindset is bad (that you think or feel conspiratorial (is that a word lol?)) then your game suffers. Pretty much every bit of literature talks about having a positive mindset before you play and i think this is very important. If i'm feeling good and hit a set on the flop it holds without issue, if i'm looking for the cards that will take it down they surely arrive. My advice would be to let go of any grudge, and if it's really bothering you go elsewhere mate, it's an open market with plenty of options....

Hope your luck improves along with mine mate,
Roy.

Last edited by wiltshireman; Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 08:02 AM.. Reason: links removed as per conditions of forum
 
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Mon Jun 18, 2012, 02:23 PM
(#13)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
A break from playing and some time studying sound like a good idea. If you tend to always have the best hand when all in (save for when you run into a monster and are coolered), you're not playing good tournament poker.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
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Mon Jun 18, 2012, 03:51 PM
(#14)
Roythestone's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
Hi Langolier,

Thanks for the reply, I've been watching your videos and i don't think my play varies much from your own. I know what you mean about not always having the best hand when all in but i was trying to explain that i was ahead when calling or shoving in my original post. Having watched a bit of you and listened i think i'm playing a bit too aggressively post flop and even pre on some occaisions. My play is great when it gets short handed but i've been pushin hands like AK and 99 upward in pairs when i have a stack of over 30bb's. I am playing good poker when it gets to the bubble and my final table play seems to be ok (won a 3.50 rebuy 180 ppl the other day). If i can calm my early tournament play a little and get my reads back on track i think i'll be ok... watch this space!

thanks again for the input though and i would appreciate any other advice you can offer.

Roy.
 
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Tue Jun 19, 2012, 09:49 PM
(#15)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Hi Roy,

Quote:
but i was trying to explain that i was ahead when calling or shoving in my original post.
Yes, I got this... but if you are always ahead when you get all your chips in, you are not playing good tournament poker.

If you're following my classes or watching my vids you'll have an idea what I mean. I don't mean try to get money in bad and suck out... what I mean is good tournament poker includes a big dose of identifying spots to accumulate chips without a hand, and when you are actively doing this, sometimes you'll get caught with your hand in the cookie jar so to speak.

Quote:
My play is great when it gets short handed but i've been pushin hands like AK and 99 upward in pairs when i have a stack of over 30bb's. I am playing good poker when it gets to the bubble and my final table play seems to be ok (won a 3.50 rebuy 180 ppl the other day). If i can calm my early tournament play a little and get my reads back on track i think i'll be ok... watch this space!
Congrats on the win!

It sounds like you have an idea where some of the problem lies. I suspect there's a bit more going on, but this is a good start. Kudos for doing the work to identify and correct it.

Dave


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
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Thu Jun 21, 2012, 06:58 AM
(#16)
Roythestone's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
Hi Dave, thanks for the reply but i'm a little confused now (doesn't take much lol)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post

Yes, I got this... but if you are always ahead when you get all your chips in, you are not playing good tournament poker.
My problem has been that if i hit a set or two pair on a drawing flop i have been shoving or committing myself to being allin with big bets and invariably the flush or the straight drawer are calling me despite pot odds being wrong for them. Do you think it's a better play for me to abandon this play and offer better pot odds leaving myself an escape hatch if the board hits for the drawer? I've always thought that it would have to even itself out as so much literature says this is the right way to be and luck will even itself out and so on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post

If you're following my classes or watching my vids you'll have an idea what I mean. I don't mean try to get money in bad and suck out... what I mean is good tournament poker includes a big dose of identifying spots to accumulate chips without a hand, and when you are actively doing this, sometimes you'll get caught with your hand in the cookie jar so to speak.

I think i do ok in this regard and am happy to check raise, 3 bet or shove on a squeeze window as well as the odd steal on the blinds but i never do this with nothing. Do you think it's good play or advisable to shove any 2 from button or sb when you get to 5 or 6 bb's or am i right in waiting till i at least have a hand that can win at showdown?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post

Congrats on the win!

It sounds like you have an idea where some of the problem lies. I suspect there's a bit more going on, but this is a good start. Kudos for doing the work to identify and correct it.

Dave
Cheers Dave, much appreciated. I think your suspicions are bang on as i feel like a golfer who's lost his swing and it's great to have a pro to bounce off.
Roy.
 
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Thu Jun 21, 2012, 03:11 PM
(#17)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roythestone View Post
My problem has been that if i hit a set or two pair on a drawing flop i have been shoving or committing myself to being allin with big bets and invariably the flush or the straight drawer are calling me despite pot odds being wrong for them. Do you think it's a better play for me to abandon this play and offer better pot odds leaving myself an escape hatch if the board hits for the drawer? I've always thought that it would have to even itself out as so much literature says this is the right way to be and luck will even itself out and so on....
It depends somewhat on the depth of the money, the structure of the event, and your relative hand strength to their range, but in a broad general sense if I can get all in vs. a flush draw while holding a set, I'm quite happy with that big an edge.

Quote:
I think i do ok in this regard and am happy to check raise, 3 bet or shove on a squeeze window as well as the odd steal on the blinds but i never do this with nothing. Do you think it's good play or advisable to shove any 2 from button or sb when you get to 5 or 6 bb's or am i right in waiting till i at least have a hand that can win at showdown?
You generally shouldn't get to 5 or 6 bb's unless it's by accident (i.e. you lost a pot and got crippled to this stack size directly). When you're this short you shouldn't shove any 2 cards because you have very reduced fold equity. A few orbits earlier when you hand 10 or 11 bb's it may well be correct to shove any 2 cards into certain opponents (the folders) as now you have enough chips to actually chase them off unless they wake up with a hand.

Dave


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
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Thu Jun 21, 2012, 03:58 PM
(#18)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
The dispute I had with PokerStars , and was resolved in my favour , had nothing to do with the software . But the dispute needs to be kept between Pokerstars and myself .
 
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Mon Jul 09, 2012, 11:29 PM
(#19)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roythestone View Post
Thanks again guys,
I don't subscribe though to the conspiracy theory that it is fixed. I've read up on the software and it's theoretically sound, I know it looks bad some days and you see some outrageous hands coming down but think of the sheer volume of hands you watch when playing 3-4 tables for hours on end, it's way more than you could ever see live and so you are bound to see more crazyness! The Software does seem to favour the big stacks but that only because you remember losing to a big stack when they suck out or put you all in with 8 3 off and take it down. You don't remember the wins because you expect to win these hands. It's your last hand in any tournament that you remember most! My problem is that every book i've read and all my experience tells me that luck evens out eventually... meaning I must be due a pretty awesome run of wins lol!!
Anyhow, I'm off to the video section as it's no good just moaning about it, thanks again guys.
Roy.


If luck evens out eventually why are there so few consistentor big winners online , or live for that matter ? I have said this before somewhere else , but the long run is a fallacy . If it were true we would all break even eventually at least , if you play long enough ; but how long is long enough and where are you on the long run considering all the hands that have been played before you started playing poker and all the hands that will be played once you stop . The long run idea is just an excuse to keep us playing . I fall into this trap , but i enjoy the game and want to improve but online poker , no matter your bankroll , is predominantly full of losing players .Forget the long run , the long run is a myth .
 
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Tue Jul 10, 2012, 02:04 AM
(#20)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by frasierbeams View Post
If luck evens out eventually why are there so few consistentor big winners online , or live for that matter ? I have said this before somewhere else , but the long run is a fallacy . If it were true we would all break even eventually at least , if you play long enough ; but how long is long enough and where are you on the long run considering all the hands that have been played before you started playing poker and all the hands that will be played once you stop . The long run idea is just an excuse to keep us playing . I fall into this trap , but i enjoy the game and want to improve but online poker , no matter your bankroll , is predominantly full of losing players .Forget the long run , the long run is a myth .
Well, my long run is only three years, but I believe that this is long enough to evaluate your poker abilities. I started with zero, and have managed to build my BR to 1K plus. I've run into lots of bad beats along the way (yes even the dreaded one outers), but I think I've proven that it is possible to win, regardless of the strange hands that may come up.

The majority of players are going to fall short of this, because they aren't playing good enough poker, or because they blame everything but themselves, or because they just aren't dedicated enough. It's hard work to get better at poker, and most peeps just lack the necessary dedication. Poker excellence is a moving target, and you need to be just a little obsessive-compulsive to get there.

Good luck out there!!

 

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