Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Poker Education & Beginners Questions /

Limping 9's on button

Old
Default
Limping 9's on button - Thu Jun 21, 2012, 08:48 AM
(#1)
mgc1959's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
Here's a situation I faced recently in a tourney, late on, stacks were quite big, I get a pair of nines on the button. One limper, who has slow played big hands earlier, and with my stack, I can afford to raise rather than go all in, so I raise 5 blinds, about a quarter of my stack. I get called by the big blind and the limper, and an ace comes on the flop, the big blind goes all in, and he has me covered, so I have to fold.

I think this is the standard way to play this, (but let me know if it isn't). I couldn't help thinking that I'd have been better off limping the nines to wait to see the flop, it's possible, even likely that the blinds would have limped, it was a tight table, and therefore I would have lost a lot less money. What's the opinions on this? Is it just a table "feel" thing?

Mike
 
Old
Default
Thu Jun 21, 2012, 09:25 AM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi mgc1959!

How large were the stacks? When I try to setmine with a pocket pair, I'd like them to be larger than 15BB if possible. If the stacks weren't that large, then I would not limp behind and try to hit a set. The good thing for doing this here is that by being on the button, I'm in position and should be playing a wide range of cards, so it helps to conceal the possible strength of my hand.

Std raises are not that large. I try to use 3BB+1BB for each limper in the beginning, then lower to 2.5BB+1BB for each limper starting at 100/200, then lower it even further to 2.2BB+1BB for each limper at about 1k/2k.

Whether or not I'll raise with 99 here for me will depend on how the table is playing. If the table is very passive, I'll raise. If the table is very aggressive and the stacks are large enough, then I'll limp behind and try to hit a set.

Hope this helps.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Thu Jun 21, 2012, 11:43 AM
(#3)
mgc1959's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
Yeah, the table was neither, kinda half and half. That's why i wasn't sure about raising. Stacks weren't quite 15bb, but big enough.

Thanks for the response.
 
Old
Default
Thu Jun 21, 2012, 11:56 AM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hey Mike!

If the opp's stacks are not 15BB or more, then I'm not getting the right odds to setmine. With this being the case, then I'll raise/fold with my 99.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:26 PM
(#5)
mgc1959's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
So under what conditions would you fold this?
 
Old
Default
Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:27 PM
(#6)
mgc1959's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
I mean other than early in the open skill league?
 
Old
Default
Thu Jun 21, 2012, 12:42 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Mike!

Most likely, I'm raising.. but... if I know that multiple opps could 3-bet or call a 3-bet, I really don't want to be in a multiway pot for stacks if I can avoid it. I'd hope that I could find a better situation, where I can be first to shove and be heads-up.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Thu Jun 21, 2012, 01:18 PM
(#8)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Hey Mike, are we in the money yet? We have less than 15 bb's if I'm reading this correctly and you raise 25% of your stack. BB has you covered and the limper has a tendency to slowplay? Over how many hands have you observed this action on both players and how many times did you witness him slowplay a big hand and furthermore what were these big hands you watched them do this with?
I know this a lot but you have less than 15 bb's and a top 5% hand! My guess is that you have less than 100 hands on both of these guys which pretty much means you know nothing about them. I say this because it is so insignificant of a sample.
I cannot open/fold less than 15 bb's here. I either get in all in or fold pre. Reason being is that we are spewing chips by raise folding less than 15 bb's and since they have you covered, they can simply apply aggression to you knowing you will fold. This is a common leak. If you are not in the money yet but close then simply fold and wait for a better spot. If you are in the money you can double here and still only have 30 or so bb's which is a long way from final table.

 
Old
Default
Fri Jun 22, 2012, 06:02 AM
(#9)
mgc1959's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
Thanks for this - yeah, I was close to the money, and I was sitting there thinking a raise was wrong, hence this question. I almost went all in - the psychology being that I hadn't seen any hand at all in a long, long time, which is what made me raise and hope. But I should have folded, really. Never recovered from that.

The read on the guy was based on three hands where he played picture cards slow. I made a note

Thanks for the advice.
 
Old
Default
Fri Jun 22, 2012, 06:33 AM
(#10)
mgc1959's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
BTW, John, above you said "I'm not getting the right odds to setmine" - would you mind explaining what you mean by that? Cheers, Mike.
 
Old
Default
set mining odds - Fri Jun 22, 2012, 09:28 AM
(#11)
bearxing's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 499
You will flop a set about one in eight times when you have a pocket pair. However you need to have a possibility of winning more than seven times your bet because sometimes the opposition will just fold on the flop. a general rule of thumb is that you should have the possibility of winning at least fifteen times your bet before you set mine.

Hope this helps
Doug


3 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Fri Jun 22, 2012, 11:03 AM
(#12)
mgc1959's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
Thanks, that's very useful, cheers.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com