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5nl Full Ring 77 Awful turn card can i still get it in?

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5nl Full Ring 77 Awful turn card can i still get it in? - Fri Jun 29, 2012, 05:46 AM
(#1)
Nashy1996's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 164
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

Hi Everyone,

Played this hand today and thought i'd post it.I decided to make a squeeze play from the sb and try to isolate the player with 10bbs left and i'm not too concerned about the player that i've squeezed seeing that he just flatted there,i only have 5 hands on him and he's playing 40/20.
He just flats and i hit top set and try to extract full value on a wet board and he calls, then the worst card possible comes putting a straight out there and i'm put in a tough spot.

my opponent makes a pretty small bet and i couldnt bring myself to get the rest in and decided to make a disiplined fold given this board would look bad to my opponent also plus he could have some hands that do include 8's

What do u guys think?
Thanks
Nashy
 
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Why fold? - Fri Jun 29, 2012, 06:16 AM
(#2)
etipac's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 116
Why fold, when you have one of the top hands there plus he makes a small bet and you have a redraw.. If your opponent is an agro type he might chose the perfect timing to bet and take the pot from you too though once you still have outs to the nuts and he bets small enough I am sticking in.. calling but if you have a good read you might even do a check raise enough for him to get scared or if he is not a good player even stick with 2pair. But I am not folding there for sure with the turn bet, checking is oki and maybe going into check/call mode for me if you are unsure.

Etienne
 
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Fri Jun 29, 2012, 06:44 AM
(#3)
AceKingBlows's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 101
BronzeStar
As played I don't hate folding ( I personally would probably have called here, more likely even b/f myself) but I really don't like the 3b pre. You say you're trying to isolate the shortie but what for, a 70c flip most likely? Doesn't make much sense imo.

Edit: Thinking more about the hand it's pretty hard to attribute a range to villain? He either has pocket 3s (though would he really get stubborn pre with 3s? Unlikely) 8s (the only realistic scenario in which he holds an 8, since we hold two sevens with one on board?), a pair + straight draw or a hand like AJhh, A10hh? Did you have any reads on him, is he capable of vbetting worse than a straight here? Seems like he either has "it" or a semi-bluff here, to me anyway. Would be interested to hear some other people's thoughts

2nd edit : The more i think about it the less likely i think it is that he has the straight here, unless you put him on exactly pocket 8s, or have a read that you know he is capable of callng 3bs very liberally. Also, I would like to be betting the turn here but you almost can't because of the inflated pot you created by 3bing pre!

Last edited by AceKingBlows; Fri Jun 29, 2012 at 10:14 AM.. Reason: Further thoughts
 
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Fri Jun 29, 2012, 07:08 AM
(#4)
Croyd93's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 639
Gotta agree with AKblows about 3betting pre, personally I'd just flat here you're OOP and there aren't too many flops you are actually confident you have the best hand on.

As played I don't like checking the turn, if I was your opponent and I saw you check such a scare card I would try take the pot away. To me that looks like what he's doing as he bet like 1/3 pot. I'd prefer to lead out again on the turn and if i'm raised then just pitch it as he most likely has it.

What reads do you have on the villain i.e is he aggressive and does he often bet out when seeing weakness. Any info you have on him would definately be helpful when deciding what to do here.
 
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Fri Jun 29, 2012, 10:04 AM
(#5)
AceKingBlows's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 101
BronzeStar
I think the sizing is interesting too, it's an area where i tend to level myself quite frequently. His small bet seems indicative of weakness but that's not necessarily the case. I have often seen players make these small "luring" bets - even in situations where their hand needs protection - with the relative nuts.

His stack size is somewhat awkward and if he were to make a "normal" sized value bet, he'd be left with almost nothing by the river and would effectively be all in anyway. This, in turn, makes me think he might bet small with a straight here to invite us to come along, confident that he has the best hand. That said, ultimately the sizing definitely looks like a cheap (semi?) bluff, as croyd notes!
 
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Sat Jun 30, 2012, 12:37 AM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi,

I think folding is not good here personally. First of all I agree that he may well simply believe we are giving up and bet to try and take the pot away from us, there is no way we can be sure he's actually got a straight here. Of course it's possible, but certainly he's got other hands we're beating as well in his range. Like A5 for instance. Flush draws. 2 pairs.

Even if he has the straight, he's bet too small.. we need 24.7% equity to break even on a call and against pocket 8's we have 25% with our full house draw. So it may be a suck bet to keep us in, but if he has a straight he thinks we're likely drawing dead so he can give us a good price... we are drawing very live though.

Given that and we're not always drawing, I would call. I don't like raising because it takes all of the bluffs out of his range and only gets called when he's actually got the straight. If we don't fill, we can check and give him another chance to bluff at it so while we'll pay off a straight, at least we'll still get value from his bluff range. Or if we think he only value bets the river and he bets it big, begrudgingly fold then. I don't like folding the turn though, especially for a bet that gives is the correct price to draw to a FH.

Dave


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Sun Jul 01, 2012, 01:26 AM
(#7)
Nashy1996's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 164
Thanks for all your thoughts guys,theres some really good stuff that you've given me.unfortunately i dont have any more info on the opponent like u guys asked,i was playing zoom and only had 5 hands of data.
But after looking at your thoughts on this hand,i do agree that his turn bet seems weak and there are some some bluffs and worse hands in his range.
Like i think Acekingblows said that he has seen opponents make these bets and still have been strong, but as long as i keep those worse hands and bluffs in his range by flatting the turn as The Langolier suggested i think it still plays pretty well for us.
i guess sometimes when turn cards come like these it can be my first instinct to just fold when i need to be thinking how this action effects my opponents range etc..
Anyway thanks again guys its and interesting dicussion as always.

Nashy
 

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