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88 utg+1

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88 utg+1 - Wed Jul 04, 2012, 07:26 PM
(#1)
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Hey guys!

I'm reading the book "Winning Poker Tournaments one hand at a time - Vol I" and he said something that made me confused.

He was playing at a $500 sunday tournament for about 4 hours, and he got 88 UTG+1. So he says "Pocket eights is a strong hand, and I will often open for a raise even in early position"

I think that 88 is not a hand that strong to play from early position. And if you play it, you would look to hit a set on the flop cuz your pair would almost never be good against someone calling an early position raise if some broadway hits the flop.

What u guys think ?
 
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Wed Jul 04, 2012, 08:20 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
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Hi fp_boss!

Where in the book are you? Please let me know and I'll take a look at that particular situaiton.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Jul 06, 2012, 01:10 PM
(#3)
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Hey John!

It's on the page 219, and it's the hand number 95.

Thanks.
 
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Fri Jul 06, 2012, 01:52 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
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Hi fp_boss77!

Looking at this situation, the table dynamics are going to mean a ton here. First, the table is loose-passive... so the opps are likely to limp and be in the pot preflop, then fold if they don't hit something on the flop. Secondly is his table image. Tight, showing down only big hands (and not caught bluffing).
This combination makes mid pairs a much better hand than they would be if the table is aggressive or if the hero's table image was not as good.

I agree with the call behind here, as with a mid pair, I want to setmine and with the table being loose passive, there should be multiple players in the pot and there are when seat 7 calls and the BB checks (4-way flop).
When the BB and the initial raiser check the flop, I like making a bet here. Since the table has been playing straightforward poker after the flop, they most likely missed it. That leaves only 1 player (seat 7) that may have hit a part of the flop. By betting here, I can control the size of the pot and if someone raises, I can try to lose a minimum amount. If I check, then I open it up for seat 7 to make a bet to try and steal the pot... and I won't know whether or not I have the best hand to call. When it's UTG that calls, now I get the added bonus of playing the rest of the hand in position, which is an added extra.

I like the check behind on the turn, for the same reasons that are stated. The call on the river will be totally read dependant and if my read puts the opp on a missed draw or lower pair, then I'll call too.

The key to this hand is the table dynamics. With the way that the table was, 88 plays much better here than against a table with a lot of aggression.

Hope this helps.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Jul 06, 2012, 04:18 PM
(#5)
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Now it makes sense lol...

Thanks for the help !
 
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Poker for the rest of us - Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:37 AM
(#6)
king_spadez1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by fp_boss77 View Post
Hey guys!

I'm reading the book "Winning Poker Tournaments one hand at a time - Vol I" and he said something that made me confused.

He was playing at a $500 sunday tournament for about 4 hours, and he got 88 UTG+1. So he says "Pocket eights is a strong hand, and I will often open for a raise even in early position"

I think that 88 is not a hand that strong to play from early position. And if you play it, you would look to hit a set on the flop cuz your pair would almost never be good against someone calling an early position raise if some broadway hits the flop.

What u guys think ?
When reading this book, you have to realize the authors are professional card players. The lines they take are not necessarily the only lines that are plausible for every other card player.

In this case his read on the table, and his seasoned post-flop ability, allow him to follow this line. In volume 2 of this series, you’ll find the 3 co-authors breaking down the same hands. And not to be surprised, they don’t always take the same lines. The reason for this is simple, poker is a very subjective game, add in varying playing styles, and you may have many different plans of attack for the same hand.

His limp behind was based on sound reasoning. Any raise from any position will force him to fold, but he felt only a premium hand would chose this line (hence, loose-passive table). At the same time he felt his raise would lure others into limping in as well, thus setting up a possible big score, if he should hit his set. Another part of his assumption is, players may be afraid to raise the UTG limper (as some players limp-3bet with strong hands from UTG). He felt, at most, his investment in this pot would be 1BB, if he missed his set. As the hand played out, are you willing to make a bet of 4BB (leaving just 15BB behind) like he did? The answer is probably not. With a loose-passive table there are much better alternatives to chip-up using position. Salvaging your 19-20BB stack is ‘crucial’ for 3bet shoving; this size stack has much more fold equity than a 15BB stack.

There’s a great PSO video covering medium to short stacks, give it a whirl. Here’s the URL: http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...Stack-in-MTT-s

I’m fine playing this hand from the BTN for cheap, where I may have a better chance of taking down the pot from a positional advantage, if I miss the set. There really needs to be a book that will cover “Poker For The Rest Of Us”.


"May the cards be with you!"
 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 09:54 PM
(#7)
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Hey king_spadez1

yeah, I haven't read the vol 2 but I certainly will.

Thanks for the advices, i will surely watch the video.
 

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