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Br help ? for nl cash tables

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Br help ? for nl cash tables - Sat Jul 07, 2012, 08:50 AM
(#1)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
HI guys and ladies, ? for you ,what amount of BR should i have for 2c-5c, does the 100 buyin rule still apply?

I have grinded my BR upto a suitable BR for 1c-2c limit and was thinking, at what stage shall i move up.

Putting 90 percent of what you have learnt me into practice and i am doing ok, i have been a bit flexible on BR management, and since i was going to play just 1 tourney a week things have changed as i have in fact won a bit.

So now thinking cash tables
 
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Sat Jul 07, 2012, 09:56 AM
(#2)
Feskprins's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 450
The 100 buyin is a general rule for MTTs. You can be a lot more flexible with cash games depending on your skills and how comfortable you are. Somewhere around 30-40 buyins is alright.

....
 
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Sat Jul 07, 2012, 10:49 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,823
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Hi Holdemace!

Here is a link to the bankroll management guidelines for cash games.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



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Sat Jul 07, 2012, 11:06 AM
(#4)
dopplerboyf5's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 149
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
HI guys and ladies, ? for you ,what amount of BR should i have for 2c-5c, does the 100 buyin rule still apply?

I have grinded my BR upto a suitable BR for 1c-2c limit and was thinking, at what stage shall i move up.

Putting 90 percent of what you have learnt me into practice and i am doing ok, i have been a bit flexible on BR management, and since i was going to play just 1 tourney a week things have changed as i have in fact won a bit.

So now thinking cash tables

You said that you have been able to grind your way up and that your begining to win a bit.

My advice to you is to keep doing what your doing for a while to build your BR even more. You must be able to survive when you get into those down swings. Just because your BR is large enough for higher stakes dosen't mean you have to play them. Its better to enjoy playing poker then to worry about it.
 
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Sat Jul 07, 2012, 11:32 AM
(#5)
wikked76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 385
Hey holdemace.. imo it's like 5000Bbs or ard USD250 for 5NL cash games, but it also depends on wat ure comfortable with. Some folks are comfortable with as low as 1000BBs for cash. BR management is so critical to being a winning player I guess cos when ure having major downswings (n they do happen) they can effect how u think n play on the felt. When that happens I usually jus walk away, take a smoke or jus call it a day.

On a personal note, I was grinding 2NL last month. Grinded til ard USD250 mid month(started with USD50), moved up to 5NL. Lost abt 30% of it in less then a week and shifted down again. Overall still a profitable month albeit it could've been a little more. But i guess some is better then none

Good luck m8
 
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Sun Jul 08, 2012, 08:08 AM
(#6)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
thx for the advice and tips and links guys all usefull stuff appreciated, think im going to stick at the level im at for the moment as suggested,

But i may have one splash at one of the bigger tourneys today,still leaving myself a Acceptable BR for 1c 2c,

then if i get enough to afford another bigger tourney do it that way and have another splash keeping my BR at a acceptable level for cash no limit 1c 2c does this sound an ok idea?
 
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Sun Jul 08, 2012, 08:11 AM
(#7)
wikked76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 385
as long as u're comfortable with it m8!
good luck at the felts!
 
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Sun Jul 08, 2012, 09:22 AM
(#8)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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BRM is really only valid when you've already demonstrated that you can be a winning player long term. Until that time, no matter WHAT you do with the available amount of money you have to play on, you WILL lose it all if you keep playing.

What BRM does is allow a winning player to reasonably off-set the swings of variance which will occur by "keeping him in action" through the down swings. The amount needed for that varies widely by the type of play style.

What players who are NOT yet winning players long term is not BRM, but rather SELF DISCIPLINE.
The best a losing player can expect to do with his available money is keep in action long enough to LEARN to be a winning player.

In the micro stakes arena, the buy in amounts are so low that it is pretty unrealistic to expect that anyone who can afford to consider depositing $ on line to play at all cannot afford to RE LOAD at that level. Therefore micro stake BR's are usually "insignificant money", and do NOT require any "management" because they can easily be replaced.

Now if you were a losing player at the $1/$2 level on line, and your average BI were $200+, AND if you carried 30BI ($6000) in your account, THEN you'd have a situation where for most people you would have a "significant" (not easily replaced) amount on line. As a losing player, to make the amount you have last as long as possible to (hopefully) see your transition to a long term winning player, I'd urge you to STEP DOWN in levels.

But at the 2NL or 5NL, where will you step down TO?

If you lose $25 or $50 playing a game you ENJOY, and if you can replace that amount (and want to do so), then go for it; you are gaining valuable experience that you might use to become a winning player.

If you are a losing player, and consistently lose your $25 or $50 deposits because you step up to 10NL+ as soon as you win a little bit of $, then STOP THAT. Exercise self-discipline.

Nothing you try to do to "manage" an amount of money you probably have no "fear" of losing is going to replace the simple realization that you are acting with patterns that are self destructive. so do not bother wasting your skull sweat on BR "management", and instead ACCEPT the fact you are a losing player, and the cost of your transition to a winning player will be frequent re-deposits.

Spend the time you save on worrying over how MUCH you are losing, and how to "manage" an amount you can afford to lose, on STUDYING THE GAME.

the best you can do is halt your destructive pattern of jumping up in levels to minimize the number of deposits you have to make to LEARN to be a winning player.

There are no quick fixes in poker, they ALL take self discipline.

An interesting note for you HEA486:

Look at the number of posts you have in the areas of the forum where you can rant about the software, talk about things like BR management, and other unimportant aspects of poker for where you are at in your game right now.

Now compare that post number to the number of posts you have in the areas of the forum that might HELP you learn more about the game: The HA forums, the training feedback sections, the various game strategy sections etc.

Then, look at your attendance in live training sessions, and how frequently you view videoes in the PSO library, and how often you read the lessons in the PSO cirruculum.

Finally, take a TRUE look at the ROI for your play over the last YEAR.

Do you think that your ROI might carry a direct correlation to the amount of time you spend on useless poker "discussion", versus the amount of time you actually spend in effective STUDY?

Same goes for everyone else who wonders why they are not a winning player.

“In the long run, we shape our lives, and we shape ourselves. The process never ends until we die. And the choices we make are ultimately our own responsibility.”
― Eleanor Roosevelt


Double Bracelet Winner

Last edited by JDean; Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 09:34 AM..
 
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Sun Jul 08, 2012, 09:28 AM
(#9)
wikked76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 385
Great post JDean.. Learning more each day here @ PSO and great advice!
Thanks
 
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Mon Jul 09, 2012, 02:44 AM
(#10)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
great stuff there j.d,i think i here what you are saying,and thx to all for the comments.
 
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Mon Jul 09, 2012, 05:42 AM
(#11)
PokerPest72's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 247
BronzeStar
[QUOTE=JDean;356488]BRM is really only valid when you've already demonstrated that you can be a winning player long term. Until that time, no matter WHAT you do with the available amount of money you have to play on, you WILL lose it all if you keep playing.

What BRM does is allow a winning player to reasonably off-set the swings of variance which will occur by "keeping him in action" through the down swings. The amount needed for that varies widely by the type of play style.

Hi JD quick question on that 1 m8, Should not BRM be used by all players no matter whether they lose or win, with a side effect of BRM teaching you discipline and thats something all winning players need, and how many longterm losing players would be longterm winning players if they just started off with the correct BR , if your stacks under constant pressure then from a mental point of view you are already beat, you cant play your A game if your worried about your chipstack 27/4.

Just my opinion m8
Paul.
 
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Mon Jul 09, 2012, 06:09 AM
(#12)
PokerPest72's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 247
BronzeStar
You want my advise bro for what it,s worth, you have now started to demonstrate you can win money playing in tourneys and the first thing you do is say woohoo now its time for cash tables which are a completely different beast, so you have spent all that time learning how to make some money in a game and now your changing games, do you want to start all over again? Why not keep playing them tourneys keep winning money in that game format over a longer period. The swings are larger in cash games and your prone to tilt, when u lose 10 or 20 tourney buy ins in 1 hand at the cash tables and it will happen you cant win every hand it's impossible and it only takes that 1 bad read and call your going pop. POSTAL lol Them 20 buy ins could get you how many hours game play? how many more spots to learn in? They are just 2 of the positives you would get out of it. Don't forget your cash ins aswell

Just my opinion.
Paul.
 
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Mon Jul 09, 2012, 08:29 AM
(#13)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
[QUOTE=PokerPest72;356592]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDean View Post
BRM is really only valid when you've already demonstrated that you can be a winning player long term. Until that time, no matter WHAT you do with the available amount of money you have to play on, you WILL lose it all if you keep playing.

What BRM does is allow a winning player to reasonably off-set the swings of variance which will occur by "keeping him in action" through the down swings. The amount needed for that varies widely by the type of play style.

Hi JD quick question on that 1 m8, Should not BRM be used by all players no matter whether they lose or win, with a side effect of BRM teaching you discipline and thats something all winning players need, and how many longterm losing players would be longterm winning players if they just started off with the correct BR , if your stacks under constant pressure then from a mental point of view you are already beat, you cant play your A game if your worried about your chipstack 27/4.

Just my opinion m8
Paul.
Poker Pest...

If you are negative EV in a situation, if you keep playing eventually you will go busto.

If you will eventually go busto anyway, the only "management" you need to make with your money is to decide how LONG you want to take it to go busto.

The only thing you need to think on if you are NOT a winning player is: since I can afford to move up if I want, do I CARE about the amount I am risking enough to give up the extra time to busto I'd have to take a shot at possibly winning more, and if the answer is "yes, I do not want to reload", then use self discipline and stay at your lower level.

If the answer is "no, I do not care aobut this small amount of money being lost, because I can afford to deposit more", then trying a higher game not only brings greater risk, but also greater potential for REWARD.

Since you are losing ANYWAY, why not try a higher game, with higher REWARDS if you are -eV at your regular game. In your regular game you have to 'get lucky" to win, so why not try getting lucky in a higher game if a loss is insignificant to you?

Now...

I am NOT suggesting all you 2nl players jump up to 100NL simply because you have 1 bi on line. But what I AM saying is that if you are a long term loser at 2nl, and you don't mind losing because you can reload without any effect, and if the amount you risk is one you can easily replace, there is no reason NOT to try a bigger game occasionally...

Sure, you'll probably LOSE faster and more often, but so long as the money you lose is what your SELF DISCIPLINE says you can easily afford, that should not be a problem.

If, however, $25 or $50 is an amount you do not WANT to replace (even if you CAN), then it would be pretty dumb to jump up to 25nl or 50nl where the players are likely better than the opps you cannot already beat.

Use your self discipline to know the difference, and put all the skull sweat you are wasting on BRM thoughts into STUDY of how to play poker instead.

Simple.


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